Accelerating Your CAS Practice [Plus Closing Remarks]

Experts in the field share their top strategies, tactics and best practices for boosting a CAS practice, but in the short-term and the long-term.


Transcription:

Chris Gaetano (00:00:14)

Hello there, everybody. I am Chris Gaetano with Accounting Today. So, you have started a CAS practice already. It's going pretty okay so far, but what happens when you're ready to move past pretty okay? How do you go from surviving to thriving? How do you kick things up a notch and go from someone who has a CAS practice to a true CAS specialist? We have got some great speakers today who are here to discuss that exact thing, and we are so excited to present them to you today. But first, a little bit of quick housekeeping. I'm sure you've heard it before, but just one more time with feeling. Number one, to get CPE credit, you have to stay for the whole session. Number two, attendees must participate in the audience engagement features, such as polling, during the sessions. You have to answer those polling questions.

(00:01:08):

And then number three, attendees must complete and submit the CPE slash evaluation form no later than August 18th, 2025. That is four days from now. Once the form has been submitted, you will receive a certificate of completion from Horizons two weeks post-event. Now that boring stuff is out of the way. We have a great set of speakers. I'm just going to go over them in more detail later on, but we've got Deborah Defer, Director of CAS Consulting at Woodard. We've got KC Brothers, Director of Product Marketing at Canopy, and we've got Kane Polakoff, CohnReznick Partner and CAS Practice Leader. Great to see you all. And I guess let's dive right into it. I introduced name, title, and stuff like that, but maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and your organization. KC, why don't you get us started out.

KC Brothers (00:02:01)

Yeah, thank you, Chris. I'm KC Brothers, Director of Product Marketing at Canopy. I've spent the past three and a half years here deeply researching the market, the tools, and most importantly, the people behind modern accounting firms. Over that time, I've led hundreds of interviews with firm owners, staff, consultants, and even non-users, digging into what helps firms grow and what gets in the way. I also host our podcast, the Practice Success podcast, where I've interviewed people like Kane and gotten to know a lot of people on the cutting edge of CAS. Specifically, I bring a unique blend of SaaS expertise, curiosity, and a deep passion for software efficiencies, AI automation, and building better workflows.

Chris Gaetano (00:02:44)

Alright, great. And next up, let's go with Deborah over here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Deborah Defer (00:02:52)

Absolutely, and it's okay, Chris, if you call me Deb, just never call me Debbie. So yes, I'm Deborah Defer, Director of CAS Consulting at Woodard. Prior to that, I worked in public accounting. I worked for a regional firm that was acquired by BDO in 2015. We were very successful at BDO, rolling out the CAS practice, going from 12 million to 70 million in less than 10 years. We were on a magic carpet ride. My passion is helping accounting firms really streamline their processes, their automation, optimizing pricing, just really helping them become a high-performing CAS or Client Advisory Practice. Here at Woodard, we have a vision. We love to enrich businesses through business advisors, so that's what I get to do every day. And Kane will tell you when he talks as well and introduces himself, we're out there kicking CAS.

Kane Polakoff (00:03:47)

Oh, nice.

Chris Gaetano (00:03:48)

Alright, Kane, take us home. Tell us a little about yourself.

Kane Polakoff (00:03:51)

Well, I should have been wearing my kicking CAS outfit today, Deb. Maybe next time I can show my tattoo, but maybe for another time. Anyway, so I'm Kane Polakoff. I work for CohnReznick. We're a top 20 public accounting firm. I lead the Client Advisory Service practice for CohnReznick. I think I've been doing this for 30 years, so I'm 35, so I'm feeling pretty good. And yeah, I've been fortunate to partner with Deb, and I know KC, you and I have had some conversations, and I've just really enjoyed watching the evolution of CAS. And I know we're talking about how do we get it to thrive, so I can definitely talk about some of the lessons I've learned. But I live in Detroit, I've got two girls, I've got two dogs and my wife, and I'm looking forward to having fun on this session. Thanks.

Chris Gaetano (00:04:38)

Alright, brilliant. Thank you all so much for helping us out with this. Thank you very much for introducing yourselves. And so let's just get into it here. I don't think I have to tell any of you that CAS can be a pretty broad umbrella. There's a lot of different ways to run a CAS practice, but in your mind, how would you define the ideal CAS practice? When you think of a CAS practice that is prosperous, that is thriving, that is doing everything that it ought to be doing, what do you think of overall? How would you define the ideal CAS practice? Deb, why don't you start out?

Deborah Defer (00:05:16)

Absolutely. So one of the most critical things in CAS is that you're proactive, that you have enabled technology from an advisory model where the accountants can become that strategic partner for their clients. It's not about compliance, producing a financial statement or a deliverable that's not going to be around in three years. We want to be delivering continuous, data-driven insights, and we need it to align with what our client's goals are, making it scalable and profitable. Here at Woodard, it's really awesome. Coming from public accounting, we had some of this methodology that Joe actually trademarked called the Ideal Practice Model. And it's really about the seven ideals—what a true ideal CAS practice is. And that is having the ideal firm with a great vision, mission, and purpose, having an ideal client, which means you've really well-defined those niches and the type of client you want to have, that their culture aligns with the vision, mission, and purpose of the ideal firm. What are those services? Ideal services? Clear packaging, value-driven service offerings. Ideal team, right? Skilled teams, empower them, make them aligned with one another. Ideal technology is another. I'm a tech nerd through and through. So having those AI-enabled tools. Ideal processes—process is everything. I believe that if you don't have the people, or the processes, or the tech, you will never be successful and have that ideal CAS practice. And then the final one is ideal engagement. Are you pricing these things correctly, where it's profitable, that the firm has a great ROI on each client? I'm not a big fan of realization or productivity. I think those metrics are... I'd rather look at revenue per FTE and gross profit margin.

Chris Gaetano (00:07:10)

Alright then. And so Kane, what are your thoughts? Does this resonate with you?

Kane Polakoff (00:07:15)

What Deb said was not true. No, just kidding. We're going to throw that away. So right, Deb? But no, I mean, I think when you take a step back, we've seen, and I know Chris, we've talked too, there's been a tremendous amount of growth in this space. And I think the question is how do you set up a practice to do things right? And Deb is right, from a people, process, and technology standpoint, you have to have all that working very well together. So as you look at establishing a practice or setting things up, you want to identify the right individuals to help be part of that practice. And then it can't be part-time workers; they can't be individuals that are working in tax and also working in CAS as an example, because we've seen that happen in the past. CAS is just as demanding as tax, but in different ways, because you have monthly close, you've got quarterly close, you've got transactions, you've got to communicate with your clients, you're dealing with operations. So you want to make sure you have the right team in place to support that, from a transactional level all the way up to the controller and CFO side. And then when you look at the tech stack, we like to look at the tech stack by vertical and kind of establishing a CAS practice by vertical. So if you look at your organization, you may ask, well, what verticals should I go after? Well, look at the verticals that your firm is very good at, whether it's real estate, hospitality, non-for-profit, government contracting, whatever that is, because you want to build that expertise not only in the people that you have doing that service, but you want to have the right technology. How do you integrate with a donor database for a non-for-profit versus a point-of-sale system for restaurants versus a practice management system in healthcare? So you want to make sure you build that tech stack to be able to establish that. And then as Deb was sharing on the process side is automation, automation. We can talk a little bit about AI; we talked about that, Deb, the other day, and what's happening. But I still think that the most key thing about being successful is your people, your culture, and your people. And that's what it's going to take. And you need them to be dedicated and focused because clients have high expectations of what they need from us, and which is fine—that makes us better as we grow.

Chris Gaetano (00:09:20)

Alright then. And finally, KC, what are some of your thoughts on this? When you think about an ideal CAS practice, what really comes to mind?

KC Brothers (00:09:28)

Yeah, I kind of love that Kane and Deb already hit on tech, and me as someone who's working for a tech vendor, I don't have to talk about that. One of the things that came to mind for me is getting over the emotional attachment to what matters to you, because it doesn't matter to your client what you care most about with numbers and wanting to communicate that and what you live and breathe every day. More often than not, your clients aren't going to care about it, or they're not going to care about it to the level that you care about it. Especially for businesses, they're business owners. They have dreams and goals and things, and they've hired you for a reason. So when you speak to them, make sure to find ways to speak to them in the ways that show that you know what matters most to them. Those other things that you want to talk about are great inputs, but don't get overly worried about communicating those things.

Chris Gaetano (00:10:27)

Excellent. So moving on, I know that honestly, change is a cliché just as much as a truism, but I think we can all agree that the pace of change lately seems to be especially fast. Technology is changing, the market conditions are changing, the economy is changing—it's all going by very, very quickly. Now we're in 2025, it's a very futuristic-sounding date, but going over a couple of years in the future, or just generally looking to the future, we just went over what the definition of an ideal CAS practice is today. How do you think the definition will change? Do you think it will change? Kane, maybe we can start off with you.

Kane Polakoff (00:11:13)

Well, I think the only constant should be change. That's happened in our environment. I mean, we've seen the evolution when you look at 10 years and even last month, and I think things are moving very quickly. And to speak to KC, coming from a technology provider, it's been really important to understand what is happening in the evolution of technology and how technology can continue to allow us as a CAS practice to do more with less. And whether that's the enhancement of a general ledger system, or a practice management system, or a CRM system, or AP automation tool, or closed management tool. So you really want to ensure all these great organizations that we're partnering with are making huge strides and investments in their technology, and we want to be at the forefront of that. So how do you get to the next level is partnering with your tech partners or your consultants like Deb and helping to really learn what's next and the expectations of our clients.

(00:12:17):

Another question is, are we listening to what our clients want? Are we taking care of them? I mean, we can't forget about them. They're the most important. If we're not servicing them properly, it doesn't matter how shiny our technology is, or how great our people are, we're just okay. So I like to tell—I think I said this to Deb before—I love to be in a position that our clients invite us to Thanksgiving dinner. And when you get that type of relationship in place, that allows us to know that we're actually helping our clients become much better. So the technology aspect is important, but also really understanding. Historically, as accountants, it's more about looking at the past, but now we have to look at the future and taking the information that we have and gleaning that together. But then meeting with our clients and partnering with them and helping them to determine what is next, whether that's an acquisition, or whether that's divesting, whether that's hiring a bunch of people, or looking at your food costs.

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And I think those are the expectations our clients are looking for now. It's not just sending a financial statement over the fence and saying, "Here you go. Thank you." That's expected now. If you're not doing that, then you're definitely not thriving. But that's an expectation. The expectation now is our clients need us, and they look at us as an extension of their team. And that's key for us as we kind of look forward, is that's an expectation that I think the market and the profession have to get to, to support our clients going forward.

Chris Gaetano (00:13:47)

So KC, what are some of your thoughts on that? Kane had mentioned that human factor that you had discussed before. When you think about just how things are going to change in the future as far as what constitutes an ideal CAS practice, what are some thoughts that come to mind for you?

KC Brothers (00:14:03)

I don't know if you noticed, but I had a hard time keeping my head still while Kane was talking. It was just like, yes, yes, yes. I think first, CAS doesn't have a great definition now, so most definitely it's going to change. I've seen it talked about as even an evolution right now, where you can start at 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, right? I think what's going to happen is we are going to see a forcing function due to advancements in tech, specifically what AI is starting to do and what it's going to be able to do in a matter of six months to three years, where we may not even see CAS 1.0 or 2.0 anymore. And it forces accountants, I think, not only to consider advisory, but forces them to jump to that level of service provision for their clients because they want to know what they don't know.

(00:14:56):

And Kane highlighted some of those things with examples with the restaurants and stuff. They want to know what their blind spots are. That's why they've hired you. They know you have an expertise. And again, I'm going to plug what Deborah said, one of her ideals, the ideal client profile. You need to think about those characteristics of who you want to work with and how to get as specific as possible

revenue tiers, industries, maybe even who you're interacting with in that business more specifically, because it also helps you double down on your expertise to see those blind spots.

Chris Gaetano (00:15:38)

And finally, Deb, does this sound kind of about in line with what you were thinking? How does this hit for you?

Deborah Defer (00:15:46)

It really does. And here, let's break it down. AI is as old as it's going to be today, and it's going to be as ugly as it is today. It gets prettier, it gets a day older, it gets an hour older. So it's changing, so the definition will change. And I look at it from a perspective of we have real-time dashboards today. We can do predictive analytics; we are automating workflows. Those things are going to become the baseline. What ideally we want to see evolve is anticipating client needs before they even express what they want. This whole shift with AI, so what I like to say in the definition is advisory will move from what has happened to what's about to happen and how to optimize for it and get clients prepared, help them generate wealth. And it's a win-win between the firms being that trusted advisor and the clients growing their business. And I agree 100% with Kane when he said we want that relationship with our clients. People that adopt AI are not going to be replaced by it; it's the people that don't adopt AI that are going to be replaced by the people that do adopt it. Instead of Thanksgiving dinner, I say a lot of times, clients... am I going to get invited to their kids' weddings? Because that's when you know you have a really great relationship.

Chris Gaetano (00:17:09)

Gotcha. Excellent. So it looks like we are actually at time for our very first polling question. So if we could maybe have that opened up, and yeah, basically what we would like to know this time around for the first polling question is

Do you think there is a single model for success for CAS practices? Yes. No, but I only think there are one or two models. No, I think there are multiple models all over the place. We're not doing a quiz; no one's being judged on this. We just kind of want to know what people think overall of this sort of question. And yeah, there's a lot of different ways that you might be able to answer it. Do you think there is a single model for success for CAS practices? Maybe you just believe, yes, there is one true way. Every single thing really ought to go along this one true way, and any sort of deviation, it's not optimal.

(00:18:17):

You think, no, that's not one, maybe one or two, maybe just a couple, several perhaps, so few but not really a whole lot. Or there are multiple models, you're saying how are you defining success? How are you defining model? How are you defining CAS? That's always that big question over there. Maybe there's just a thousand different ways that you might be able to be successful. Maybe there are a thousand different ways that could even be ideal, let's say. Anyway, we just kind of want to let this go for a little bit longer, and I'm seeing that the vast majority of folks have already clicked in their answer, so I'm just going to give it a little bit more time. Let's say maybe count to 10. So remember you've got to answer these polling questions if you want CPE, and I do want you to have CPE for this. So we're going to start off with 10, 9, 8, 7, 6. I ought to launch rockets for a living. 5, 4, 3, 2, and one. Alright, I think that's about it for our poll right now. And gotcha, just yep. And it looks like we have only about 5% said yes. 9% said only one or two models. And honestly, the vast, vast, vast majority, 86%, said that they feel that there are multiple models for success. I'm curious, that seems about in line with what you folks were thinking.

Kane Polakoff (00:20:07)

Yeah, I don't think there's a silver bullet. I mean, and I've gone through a couple of journeys of building CAS practices from scratch, and each time I did it differently. And I think it depends on your go-to-market strategy, whether it's the verticals you want to go at, small clients, big clients, multi-entity clients. You can talk about it, what type of services defining CAS. Is it you're going to provide payroll, HR services, you're going to do accounting services? So I think there's a lot of ways to skin the cat, and it doesn't mean it's wrong, and I think there's a lot of things of defining what success means, but you can set it up differently and still be successful.

Deborah Defer (00:20:45)

I agree with you, Kane. 100%.

Chris Gaetano (00:20:48)

Alright then. So moving on. Now you've got your CAS practice, as lots of firms do nowadays, but how exactly do you move on now to this next level? Really, the meat of it is, in your view, what is it that differentiates a good CAS practice from a great CAS practice? KC, what are your thoughts on this?

KC Brothers (00:21:15)

Yeah, I think a good CAS practice takes data and helps business owners be more profitable. That's a good thing. But I think a great CAS practice helps advise them on their dreams and what's next, like Deb was saying. It's using technology to get predictive. They can look at past data from their behavior in softwares, the projects they work on for that client, as well as the information they're collecting, processing, and completing for the client. And this only gets better. Again, when you've got an ideal client profile, you have very few variations of the types of client you have and even the types of work or types of even books you're keeping, if we're going to get that specific. So again, that adds to your expertise, making it easier for you to have more future-focused advisory conversations. This means it's highly likely that they're also offering services that a good CAS practice wouldn't offer. So those services, and to Kane's point that there are multiple ways to skin a cat, it just is going to evolve with you as you build it. A thing that I'm also hearing some whispering, so even just kind of double down on this point that it can look like whatever you want it to look like is even getting from if you're doing tax in your firm into tax planning or financial planning. Again, there's no cookie cutter for this, and I think we're only going to see that more and more.

Chris Gaetano (00:22:46)

And so Deb, what are some of your thoughts on this when it comes to differentiating between a practice that's good, it's doing good, and one that's, wow, that's great, that is a fantastic CAS practice? What are some of your thoughts on that?

Deborah Defer (00:22:59)

So I agree with KC. I like how she pointed out some of the items that she did. When I look at a true definition of a good CAS practice, I'd say they're meeting expectations

they have accuracy, timeliness, and standard advice. But when we talk about a great CAS practice, they're delivering clarity and foresight and confidence by embracing the seven ideals or with precision workflows and predictive insights, picking specific industries to strategize on, using AI-powered tools at their fingertips, and structuring these engagements so there's value and long-term partnership. That's where I see a great practice.

Chris Gaetano (00:23:47)

And Kane, yeah, just what are your thoughts here when you look at a practice and you're like, wow, this is pretty good, but it's not great? What's the difference here?

Kane Polakoff (00:23:59)

I'm going to be very simplistic here. I mean what KC and Deb said was great. It's the people you have.

Deborah Defer (00:24:05)

That's

Kane Polakoff (00:24:06)

My simple answer. I think the opportunity of finding the right people—I think you use the analogy, you want to have the right person sitting on, driving the bus, people in the right seats—but you also want to build one thing. We don't talk enough about is culture and having the synergies of a team that's willing to go and look for excellence and aspire and drive and all those attributes. Those results are like Deb you said with driving excellence and the different seven pillars that you talked about and KC with the technology. But I like to, when I talk to a lot of the practice leaders, it's how do we really innovate and support our team so they continue to grow and take on more responsibility and take ownership and drive excellence and really partner with your clients. So those are such a critical aspect of going from good.

(00:25:02):

Good is, "Hey, I'm okay. I'm going to send you a financial statement. Good job. Alright. I met my SLA, check." Great is, "All right, well what can I do differently this month than I did last month for this client? This client's been complaining about these certain things. He, she, or they has been talking about this and they wanted me to look into this." So I did all those things that that person asked for, and then I even delivered beyond that. And I like the analogy of being invited to a wedding. So I'm not going to use Thanksgiving dinner anymore, Deb. But I think it's to be able to do that. Now, all the attributes—you still got to be profitable, you still got to drive top-line revenue, you still got to hit the SLAs, you still got to be able to scale.

(00:25:42):

All those things are very critical, but you want your people to feel empowered to be able to go to the next level and feel motivated and take that ownership. And it's hard if you go from 10 to 50 to 100 to 500 people. You need to build that, ingrain that culture into your organization to be able to do that. And that's where great gets fun, and that's where we're looking to get to that point. And it takes a lot of hard work, but it is the people. It's not just the tech, it's not the process, but it's the people that will make things great.

Chris Gaetano (00:26:14)

I'd actually like to drill down a little on that more, Kane, if you don't mind. So when it comes to having the right people on your team, first of all, what exactly are you looking for then in building this team? If you really want to put together a crackerjack group of people here, are there particular qualities? Is it all about technical ability? Is there some inevitable quality that you look for overall when you're filling this? What should people think of?

Kane Polakoff (00:26:41)

So when you get in those Cracker Jack boxes and you pull it out and you find that prize, Chris, that's what you want, right?

Deborah Defer (00:26:46)

Yeah, of course.

Kane Polakoff (00:26:47)

But no, I think that, and that's what's so great about what we do. We are in operations. We are executing, we're implementing, we're driving, we're managing. So when you think about, there's a lot of different skill sets that come into there. And then also when you think about communication. It wasn't 10 or 15 years ago when it was a write-up group where the people are sitting in a dark room—you think about a couple of movies—and you're doing your typing and you're not talking to a client. You're in the spotlight. You have to articulate, you've got to handle tough situations, you've got to listen to clients. So what are those skills? Well, one, you need to have a bunch of accountants that can think and that can analyze, that can drive, that can look, interpret, and that can partner with somebody. So that's important.

(00:27:29):

You also, you can look at project management—individuals that can multitask, that can handle many things, can know how to prioritize, because it's a very fast-paced environment we work in, and the project management to help drive these large implementations for our clients and to help keep everybody on track. So that's important. And then you have the technology side. So having individuals that are able to deploy technology, kind of put together an integrated solution offering and to be able to think. Those could be engineers, those can be technologists, and putting all that together, that's what it's going to take. It's not just one person, it's how everybody works together as one team. I have some folks on our team that are not even accountants, and they're great, and there's nothing wrong with that. So you have to be able to put together the right organization, because there are some cases you need people to just crunch numbers and do analysis, or even look into business intelligence. So I think it really is where you want to go, but it's really a mix. And I think as we all talked about the staffing shortages of accountants and all that, and Deb knows, my daughter just joined advisory in other public accounting, and her focus wasn't all in accounting; it was in business. So to be able to think differently allows us to bring in some fresh thinking within our organizations, and that helps us evolve as an organization.

KC Brothers (00:28:47)

Chris, if you don't mind me adding something I wanted to add here, because what Kane is talking about is, I feel like, really it mirrors my employment experience. At least I'm no accountant, I don't have a CPA, I'm working with people from various backgrounds. And I say that because I do feel like in order to find these unique personalities or skillsets, we're breaking the model of the traditional job search within an accounting firm.

(00:29:20):

And we're getting closer and closer to what I see every day in my career progression, working in tech in general. You see job descriptions that are vastly different from the way accounting firms manage that, even job titles. And I love too that Kane highlighted that you have so many non-CPA talented individuals, because there begins to be, and Kane, I think this was even from the podcast episode that you and I talked on, where I was just shocked at how robust your CAS teams are with even IT specialists of setting up tech connections, because you need to have technology speak the way that you want it to be able to accomplish the accounting services that you're wanting to accomplish. So you need an IT professional or several, based on your teams and the industries you serve or whatever it might be. But I think that goes back to then how you're looking for that talent and the way the job titles and the descriptions that you're putting out there.

Chris Gaetano (00:30:23)

I'm sorry, go on.

Deborah Defer (00:30:24)

Yeah, no, Chris, I do want to add to that. I have a really good example, and KC's spot on, Kane's spot on. I was working with a firm that was solely focused on nursing homes, and I told them that one of the best things they could do would be to go out and hire a director of nursing, because when they're doing advisory, and you need to know nurses per patient, you need to know how many Medicaid beds or how many Medicare beds and what those statistics look like to form those KPIs to help these nursing homes grow. Look for somebody that's in the industry, that has that subject matter expertise. It makes an absolutely huge difference. So I experienced it, I watch it, I advise that way because I have seen the results and the differences.

KC Brothers (00:31:09)

I have another comment with that. You can hire someone like that, but they only scale so much, too. And AI can do so much to help you scale an individual like that and their knowledge. Lean into documentation, lean into resources, whether it's as basic as ChatGPT or something more advanced, but get a knowledge base too, where you can have a wash, rinse, repeat process, or you have designations of... I'm hopefully going to try and repeat what you said... of X amount of Medicaid beds, X amount of Medicare beds, and you have buckets of where people might fit, or whatever it might actually look like. I'm sure there are ways to identify those things, document them, make them uniform across your firm, and then put them somewhere where you help scale that person. And then you can always bring that person in for one-offs or ad-hoc advising where you're coming across something you haven't come across before, but then you're not being bottlenecked by that person's time.

Kane Polakoff (00:32:08)

And I think, if I may add, because I know we're going off topic in a way, Chris, but I think this is even interesting. The career progression within CAS is off the charts right now with the growth. And this is for all—hopefully there are some college students on this call or listening too—but the opportunities to learn new technology innovations, to interact with CFOs and owners of organizations, and help them help themselves is pretty powerful. And having an accounting background is very important, but having a business mind and insights and to be able to be inquisitive, to listen in the right way is amazing. So as we continue to look, I think 10, 15 years ago, I was using this analogy, I remember a long time ago, if you weren't successful in tax and audit, we're going to give you this, we're going to give you to the CAS team.

(00:32:58):

And I think that's changed, and there's nothing wrong with tax and audit, but now we're looking for the cream of the crop of individuals that can come in and make a difference. And I think that's exciting for our profession and where things are heading. And you can be the best technologist and think in a certain way. Think about management consulting; we're doing a lot of that too, and it includes accounting. So it is such a great opportunity for individuals to be part of this. And even if mid-career, "Hey, I wanted to get into something new," it is endless. The growth, as I think we were 15, 20%, 25% a year, year over year as a profession, some are 60% growth. And with that growth yields opportunity, and opportunity yields excitement, and it's a great time to be part of the profession.

Chris Gaetano (00:33:46)

So Deborah, I just kind of wanted to ask you, we've been talking a lot about how the human factor can differentiate a good CAS practice from a great one. Whether that's in how you communicate with your clients, whether that's in how you recruit and manage your teams, but all these different categories, they kind of bleed into each other. And so technology, it's not this separate thing than your people, than your communications. I was wondering, how can technology be used to enable the sort of human factor, to enable the sort of, I guess, team efficiencies and good client communications that really help a practice get to the next level?

Deborah Defer (00:34:27)

Well, the technology is a key factor. Kane and I have both said, without the technology, without the processes, without the people, you're not going to be able to scale. And as a leader in CAS, I find that with tech, if we can remove that friction, if we can train and teach and upskill our folks how to use generative AI, how to use ChatGPT, how to use Copilot, whatever they choose to select for their AI support—not replacement of humans, but AI for support—that technology can make a huge difference. Chris, I hate the word bookkeeping. It reminds me of when I first started in public accounting, and it was the redheaded stepchild, and everything got thrown over the fence to the bookkeeping group. And that's not the way it is now. I like to look at it as pre-accounting. Let's take that word, pre-accounting. That's how we get the data into the system with AI and with technology, machine learning, optical character recognition. And then what we can do is actually do the accounting from a controllership perspective and help with spend management and all the things that come from monthly oversight of these clients, and then move them into this advisory-type engagement. So let's start thinking about it differently

pre-accounting, controllership, and FP&A.

Chris Gaetano (00:35:56)

Okay, I'm going to do my best Columbo impression here and say just one more thing. So we've talked about technology, talked about the people. In terms of services, right? Are there sort of particular services that a great CAS practice is offering versus a good CAS practice? Can service offerings be a differentiator here?

Kane Polakoff (00:36:22)

Is that for me, Chris?

Chris Gaetano (00:36:23)

I guess? Yeah, sure thing. You

Kane Polakoff (00:36:24)

First, I'm happy to take it if you want me to. Services are what your clients are looking for. I'll just start there. So in a lot of cases, I know you can take a couple of different approaches. You can come up with packages, and you may hear a platinum, gold, and silver, and go to your clients and say, "Here you go. You pick between those three," or you take the approach as you listen to what your client's needs are and you tailor the solution to meet their needs. And we're taking the second piece of that. So some of our clients are looking for us to continue to become the entire accounting department for them. And then some other clients should say, "Hey, can you come and train us, and can you support us? Can you implement a technology solution and can you train us on the system, then step out?"

(00:37:10):

So in both of those cases, you can still be great; you can still provide great services. But I don't think it's whether you're doing a complete entire accounting department, you're doing the pieces of the services, or you're only doing payroll, doesn't mean you're good or great. I think it's how you deliver those services. In my mind, it could be one or four services or 10 services, but you want to do it well, because the other thing is you don't want to try to take on too much, and you don't know how to do it, and then you fail, and then you become a bad CAS practice. We haven't talked about that. You don't want to be on the naughty list. So you want to make sure you're able to deliver properly.

Deborah Defer (00:37:45)

Kane, that's so cool. What I always say is you cannot be a jack of all trades and a master or mistress of none. There's so much tech out there. So pick which path you want to take. If you want to be doing that project work and the monthly accounting work, designate the people where they should be in each of the departments. Some firms are much more successful at verticals, and so it really depends. It's going to go back to that first polling question, Chris, where you were asking folks if it should be a one way to practice or a couple of ways or multiple ways. It depends on the firm, and that's why it's super important to really build that business strategy around getting to be a great CAS practice.

Chris Gaetano (00:38:32)

Fantastic. And so it looks like we are coming into our second polling question, so if you can just open that up real quickly, that would be fantastic. And what we are asking this time around, what we would like to know is

What is the single best way to grow revenue from a CAS practice? Would it be cross-selling CAS to existing clients? Would it be selling non-CAS advisory services to CAS clients? Would it be finding just new clients? Would it be raising prices? Or would it be other, something else entirely, something that we completely forgot to list in this poll? Now granted, I'm sure that all these things can be very, very important, but what we want to know is what is the single best way, in your opinion, to grow revenue from a CAS practice? Would it be cross-selling CAS to existing clients?

(00:39:31):

We've also got, as long as we've got you, we also have these particular services. Maybe we can have somebody talk to you about it. Would it be selling non-CAS advisory services to CAS clients? We've been doing CAS for you for a long time. We happen to also have some advisory services that might be able to leverage some of the insights we've developed from these CAS services. Is it just finding new clients entirely? Is it more just like, "All right, we just got to get some new people in here." Is it raising prices? I don't know. Maybe you aren't charging what the services are actually worth. Maybe you don't really want to have this awkward conversation, and sometimes maybe then raising prices might be the best option. Who really knows? Or something else entirely, something that we really just have no idea for this. So looks like most people have already clicked in. So for those last few, we are just once more going to give till a count of 10. And so we are going to go with 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and zero. All right, let's see how everyone answered. Just close that up. A couple of seconds.

Kane Polakoff (00:40:57)

I'd be interested if anybody said raising prices. I'd be interested to have that one, Chris.

Chris Gaetano (00:41:01)

Alright, well, it actually looks like a pretty decent smattering. Cross-selling CAS to existing clients was 58%. Selling non... well, okay, it looks like most people said that. Selling non-CAS advisory services to CAS clients, that is 12%. Finding new clients, 22%. And in response to your question, 4% said raise prices, and an additional 4% said others, something else entirely. Got no idea what, but looks like something that we missed. But overall, does that sound about right to you? Maybe KC, what are your thoughts on this?

KC Brothers (00:41:39)

Oh, yeah, I mean CAS hasn't been adopted by the majority of the market, so I mean that makes sense that, hey, you've already got other clients for other services. Makes sense.

Chris Gaetano (00:41:52)

Yeah.

Deborah Defer (00:41:52)

I think you have to have a minimum, Chris. You've got to have a minimum on your pricing. I think that makes a big difference to help standardize. But I like to take the approach of crawl, walk, run, and I think it's a combination of all of those things that you can look at. Every firm is different.

Kane Polakoff (00:42:08)

Yeah, so go ahead, KC, please.

KC Brothers (00:42:11)

I was going to say I think there's also a difference between raising prices and changing your pricing strategy.

Kane Polakoff (00:42:15)

True. And I think that CAS has become really the tip of the spear for most organizations now, because of once we establish those relationships we've been talking about with our clients, and then the clients are going to bring up challenges and problems that they have.

(00:42:31):

With those ideas, it brings opportunities for firms where you can cross-sell tax or other things. So I think that, and it goes both ways, but it comes down to performing well too. So if you're performing well and becoming a good or great... if you're a bad CAS practice, then you're not going to be able to handle this. But if you're a good or a great one, then you're able to cross-sell, upsell even within the CAS community itself of CAS services, and then tax or CFO, whatever else. So I think that's what we've seen. And I think when I've talked to a lot of other practice leaders, there's an enormous opportunity to cross-sell within what we provide to firms. And I think that's the other huge benefit that we as CAS can do, because we are meeting with our clients daily, and that helps in that mix.

KC Brothers (00:43:16)

You move to more of an always-on approach. The frequency might change, but then you're developing that relationship more.

Deborah Defer (00:43:25)

Intentional and proactive. All

Chris Gaetano (00:43:30)

Right. So moving on to the next question. So we've all seen a lot of these kinds of webcasts. There's a lot of really good advice, a lot of great stuff to think about eventually. But let's think in terms of the immediate. Something that people can bring with them today. What can CAS leaders do right now? And I would italicize and emphasize in bold the right now to drive growth. I mean, I'm going to guess maybe after this webcast is over, but yeah, Deb, what are some of your thoughts on that? What is an immediate thing that someone could do?

Deborah Defer (00:44:03)

So this is a shameless self-plug, but these CAS leaders, they need to continue to work on the business and not in the business, and too many of them get caught up in the day-to-day routines. So working with consultants like myself to help them really build out a great practice, somebody from the outside that can poke holes in what they're doing to get them to that next level. Honestly, they need to work on the business and not in the business.

Chris Gaetano (00:44:34)

Okay. Kane, what are some of your thoughts? What's something that people can do right now to drive growth?

Kane Polakoff (00:44:41)

And I think we were talking about this, I know Dan and Chris and all of us, before our discussion here. We're in a very special industry where sharing is encouraged. And even sharing secret sauce. When I wasn't part of the accounting space seven years prior, nobody shared anything. You go and ask somebody a question, and they say, "Well, it all depends." You get that answer

"It depends." And you really don't get any concrete answers on, "Hey, what are the tech stacks we should use?" or "What verticals should I go at?" or "What are some of the challenges you have?" or "How do you handle pricing? How do you put together a contract?" The nice thing about in our space and specifically with the CAS practice and profession, because I've been here now for almost eight years, is you'll get those answers. So I think being proactive, like you said, Deb, but reach out to myself, reach out to other CAS leaders, reach out to Deb and KC and others, and ask those questions.

(00:45:42):

That's how I learned. And I was very fortunate to have some really amazing people like you, Deb, that would answer those questions for me. And instead of spending weeks and months trying to figure it out, they can give me an answer right away. And you may have to tweak it a little bit based on the situation where you're at, but getting that knowledge is huge. So don't be afraid to ask questions. And also don't be afraid to fail. And maybe those are the questions you should ask somebody like myself

"What did you fail at? What did not go?" so then you don't make those same things that happen that I did in my career. And I think be open to that. People are willing to help. And so after this WebEx, connect with us on LinkedIn, send me a note, say, "Hey, I'd love to ask you a question," and I'll respond to you. And that would be my advice.

Chris Gaetano (00:46:28)

And KC, what are some of your thoughts on this? What's something people can do right now?

KC Brothers (00:46:33)

Well, I'll tell you something they can't do right now, and that's buy and implement practice management. That's a long-term thing. That is, you've got to plan that out. And when I say right now, you can do it right now, but you can't do it in an hour, I guess.

(00:46:47):

And that's the way I'm interpreting your question. And I think Kane and Deb have hit the nail on the head. I would just say it a little bit different. Always make time to learn. Set aside think time and guard it. It is so easy to get pulled into the nitty-gritty, the everyday accounting work. And AI is going to step into that more and more and more. Guard your brain time. You have your greatest tools right between your two ears. And then leverage others, like Kane is saying, or a community like Woodard. There are so many communities. Hop onto Reddit. I can't tell you how much I've learned about the industry just by cruising Reddit. And yeah, accountants love to put things out there to talk to each other, to commiserate, to share their pains. If someone is feeling something, I guarantee you someone else has already asked a question, written about it. You can do a lot just as soon as you hang up on here, in the hour after. But guard your brain time.

Chris Gaetano (00:47:58)

Alright. And so yeah, drawing on this, so CAS, it's already changed a lot. We've already talked about a lot of the ways that it's changed, and honestly, even in a short time, but I'm going to guess that's just not going to be the end of it. It never really is. So going forward, for now, I know that people don't like to look into crystal balls over here, but so I'm going to have to ask you to maybe bear with me over here, but how do you think the practice of CAS is going to change sometime in the future? Kane, what are some of your immediate predictions, hot takes, prognostications?

Kane Polakoff (00:48:39)

Oh, right. I'm going to buy a lottery ticket after this. I think, hopefully, if I'm feeling lucky. But I think my hope and my vision for the profession is when somebody looks at a public accounting firm, and they're going to go, "Yep, we're a full-service firm. We've got tax, we've got assurance, and we've got CAS." That's what I want. Right now, you don't hear that right now. CAS is a smaller percentage of the revenue when you look across all the firms, typically, unless you're a CAS-only firm. And I think that what I'm hoping is that the leaders of all the public accounting firms are understanding and realizing—I think the statistics show that—that we are here to stay, we're going to continue to evolve, we're going to continue to grow, we're going to continue to get better. And support us, allow us to invest, allow us to hire the right people, allow us to run the business, because we know what we're doing. And I think we're going to see that it's going to move up. I mean, I think you see that, and you look at your polls that you show every year, I know Dan, you and Dan show that, Chris, and that's what I hope that's going to happen. The profession will change, that we will have the seat at the table as well as tax and audit. And that's where I'm hoping that things will happen there.

Chris Gaetano (00:49:59)

And KC, what are some of your thoughts on this? When the future comes around and you're looking back, "Wow, things sure have changed a lot since the year 2025." What's changed?

KC Brothers (00:50:14)

Every firm is a CAS firm. I don't think there are any if, ands, or buts about it. I think technology is going to force everyone to move that way. I mean, one of the first use cases for ChatGPT 3.0 a year and a half ago was a tax return. And I think it did just a basic 1040 return just fine. And we've seen more progression and improvement in AI being able to accomplish more complex things. I mean, 5.0 just released what, a week ago or something? And I've already seen people sharing the types of daily work that accountants do that aren't as strategic as advisory is. And again, AI can't build relationships and it can't critically think. And so that's why I feel like it's the biggest forcing function to where we will see CAS in every firm and everybody's going to have to, and it'll look different too. We'll have our seasoned accountants right now who have a great understanding of accounting, and then it's just going to save them time and they're going to get to deep work or relationship management quicker. But I think it'll have a really big impact too, on net new talent to the industry. And that'll be interesting to see how CAS firms manage hiring new talent as well in five-ish years.

Chris Gaetano (00:51:46)

Alright. And Deb, what's your vision for the future? How do you think things are going to be changing in CAS?

Deborah Defer (00:51:52)

Well, so with the pace of change with technology, there's going to have to be ongoing adoption of these services, of the processes. But when I look behind me, I think of reactive interpretation. And when I look in front of me, I think of predictive and prescriptive strategies. AI is going to absorb about 70% of this transactional work. That's that pre-accounting that I talked about. So it's going to free up people to focus on advisory analysis, client strategy. I think we're going to see more specialization in verticals. I think that's going to help these firms be really successful. I think we're going to see more real-time collaboration through these AI platforms. And the other thing we haven't touched on very much during this session—I know it was the session before us—but I really think that we're going to have much more blended teams combining local and global talent. Hands down.

KC Brothers (00:52:49)

Well, to that, I also think we're going to see net new roles. I think we're going to see firms are going to be forced to get more into sales and marketing because they're going to be industry-specific. You have to then have the rhythms and the output in place to be able to find those exact people. Word of mouth could still work. You'll be working with specific individuals, and maybe they'll know people in that same network, but I don't think you'll be able to rely on it the way we've historically been able to. I,

Chris Gaetano (00:53:26)

Okay, so we now have our third and final polling question coming up. So let me just have that on the big board or just wherever it is on your interface. And yeah, for our third question, what we would like to know from you, the audience is, hang on one second. That was the wrong thing. Okay. Do you think your firm is ready for success in CAS? Completely. Mostly, but there's still a few things we could improve. Not really ready. We have a fair amount of work to do. Or no, no, not at all. Absolutely not. And no one knows who is putting in what response. So you can be completely honest about all of this. We just want to see where our audience overall is when it comes to this particular issue. And so we're already having a whole lot of folks who are clicking it, and I absolutely love to see that. Just once more.

(00:54:31):

Don't be afraid to just click that option, and you're going to be just fine. If you got the other two questions, you will get your CPE, and that will be fantastic. I know then I've done my job after that, too. And so yeah, basically just once more with feeling, do you feel set up for success? Do you think your firm is ready for success in CAS? Completely? Absolutely. There is no question. Okay. Mostly, but there are still a few things we could improve. Maybe some of those things that we just talked about over this particular webcast. Not really ready. We have a fair amount of work to do. It's very honest. And yeah, you've got a long road ahead of you, but it can be very rewarding. Not at all. Whether that means you're not even thinking about it, whether you're just starting out, who knows.

(00:55:20):

So we have now most folks. Yep. Alright. The vast majority of people have already clicked in their answers. So for those last few stragglers, once again, we are going to give it a count of 10. And we are going 10, 9, 8. Thank you very much. 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and one. Alright, let's close it out. Let's see how people feel about their preparation for success, their readiness for success. Looks like it's 14% are completely ready, 40% are mostly ready, 35% are not really ready, so a fair amount of work, and 11% said not at all. And so with these sorts of results in mind, I guess we can get to our final question, which is

What do CAS practices and accounting firms need to do to set themselves up for success over the long term? Maybe KC, you could start us up.

KC Brothers (00:56:29)

As the representative for a tech vendor, I think everybody thinks I'll say tech, but I kind of want Deb to dive into that. I think that is a very clear answer to this. But the next thing that I would say is refine your communication skills. Because again, tech is going to force you into advisory whether you like it or not. And like I said, what you care about isn't necessarily what your client cares most about. So you need to learn to speak business owner, speak entrepreneur. How are you translating the things that you're working on to tell the story or to offer the advice, to be future-focused, to use technology to find those predictive elements to say, "Here's what you're not thinking about and why. I want you to think about it. And here are some proposals." But work on your communication. I mean, that's highly related to sales and marketing, because I feel like you're going to have to get into those as well.

Chris Gaetano (00:57:33)

And Deb, what are some of your thoughts on this long-term success?

Deborah Defer (00:57:36)

So I think we're going to need to stay adaptable because client needs are going to evolve and clearly technology is. The second thing, I know Kane's going to emphasize this quite heavily, is the continuous training of your team with AI, with advisory skillsets. We need to be able to focus in on what are those KPIs, what the profitability is, retention, client satisfaction. Understand it's not just the revenue; it's all of those components that make a practice successful, knowing what those net promoter scores are from your clients and how much they appreciate what you do for them. And emphasizing to our team what's in it for them, doing incentives for them. Those are the things that will set you up for long-term success within a CAS practice. And my favorite tagline, I'll end with this

Click less, advise more.

Chris Gaetano (00:58:33)

Excellent. So Kane, close us out. How do CAS practices and accounting firms set themselves up for success over the long term?

Kane Polakoff (00:58:42)

It was interesting that you were sharing about the polling answers, and I think it was almost 40 then 50% said they weren't ready.

(00:58:50):

And I thought that was kind of an interesting answer. Since Deb and KC already talked specifically about CAS, I'm going to talk about it from the accounting firm perspective, just a little bit differently. So it's making the investment. And I think for those that said they're not ready or they're not going to do it, it's making the investment in a CAS leader, making an investment in hiring the right people. It's making an investment to help put together the right business case, and then also working with consultants, working with tech partners, and learn and ask questions. And that's what's going to set you up for success. Don't be on an island by yourself. And that's even within your own CAS practice or within your own firm. You need to be integrated and you need to reach out. You need to be there. I always like to say it's easy to be a great project manager when things go well, but you really get to see what you are as a project manager when things don't go right.

(00:59:49):

And when things don't go right, that's when you need to lean on the supporting cast that you have and supporting professionals or mentors that are there to help you be successful. And it's not easy. Building a CAS practice is not easy. So I'm not trying to simplify that. It is tough, it is grueling. There are high expectations of profitability, there's a lot of time and effort and sweat that you need to put into it, but don't do it by yourself. Make sure that your firm embraces you and supports you and gives you the tools to be successful, and also look outside of your firm to get that advice that you need. And that would be my recommendation to help setting yourself up for success.

Chris Gaetano (01:00:26)

Alright, and bonus here.

Kane Polakoff (01:00:29)

We've got a bonus question.

Chris Gaetano (01:00:31)

We have an audience question to the panelists. And so, Do you consider unlearning to relearn as a critical success factor for achieving optimal capacity building and rendition of quality CAS jobs to clients by SMBs? I'm going to say yes. Anyone want to take that on first? Just unlearning.

Deborah Defer (01:00:57)

So I don't know if it's so much unlearning as it is changing habits. The worst thing that you can do is continue to use Sally, right? Same As Last Year. Sally is not your best friend. Things have changed. We've had a huge pendulum swing. And so I don't know if it's a matter of unlearning, because you learned a lot through those things of your career. I think it's just learning more. I used to tell my team all the time, you need to learn something new every day before you go home. And so I think it's just adding on. Now, you do need to let some things go out of your brain. We only have so much brain capacity. So I think letting things go, but learning more.

Chris Gaetano (01:01:39)

Go on.

KC Brothers (01:01:39)

Just to double down this concept of unlearning, I think you don't want to throw away everything, wonderful things, but it's also not being emotionally attached to the way you did it because it's the way you did it, and it's comfortable, and you saw success. And I like what Deborah just said about Sally, Same As Last Year. Change is the only constant. Kane also said that. If you're not evaluating things regularly, have a yearly review of your processes and say what worked, what didn't work. Make it part of your culture, part of the team camaraderie to look at things underneath the microscope and refine and get better.

Kane Polakoff (01:02:30)

And I think it is fine to challenge the status quo. I think that was the point about unlearning. But you have to have processes, you have to have controls, you have to have SOPs, you have to have technology. So yeah, you can unlearn certain things if you're not doing something right. So when you do a root cause analysis and you find out, "Hey, I did this journal entry incorrectly," well then, "Well, it's because I always did it." I mean, I think that's what you hear through in the old days, that "Well, I would transition this work from this company to us," and you ask this and you find out there's a mistake. "Well, that's what they told me to do." So yeah, in those situations you have to unlearn for sure, but it can't be the Wild Wild West either. So you have to have the foundation, the operations.

(01:03:18):

I think the question was with regards to capacity planning too, and looking at forecasting out by 12 weeks and looking at your pipeline, looking at your projections, looking at your levels. I mean, there's a lot of complexity that comes in there and staffing augmentation. We talk about global operations, and in a growing practice is a key factor, and we need to continue to learn. And I do think sometimes our public accounting firms have to unlearn some things that they've always done. And that's with regards to capacity planning for how we run a CAS practice. And I think that's an area that we'll continue to have to lobby for so that we are different and we do have to have a buffer capacity, and we do need to have that because of the growth we have and because of the nature of our business, which is a little bit different when you look at tax and you look at audit. So some things that you have to unlearn or a firm has to unlearn in order to get better, but you do need to have the right processes in place to be successful.

Chris Gaetano (01:04:11)

And we only got a couple minutes left, but in this time, are there any final thoughts? Any last words of wisdom to share?

Deborah Defer (01:04:21)

So I would say, what was that commercial when we were younger? "Try it. You might like it." Mikey used to say. So I think it's important to be open, be curious, try innovation, and think outside the box. There's a lot of opportunity out there.

KC Brothers (01:04:43)

Yeah, don't feel fear in regards to change, technology, the things that are moving. Things are moving fast, but there's no time like the present. The best day to plant a tree was yesterday, but the next best day is today. So take advantage of that. If there is anyone who is feeling fear in regards to AI and the progressions that are being made there and how it might impact you in your job and day to day and your future. I was talking to someone just before this, and I thought about the industrial revolution and how that shook everything up and jobs were lost, but net new jobs were created, new ways of doing things were created above and beyond, I think, what was lost. And I think we're going to see the same thing here. Things are just going to change, and that's okay. I don't think we're at a point either where you'll get left behind and it'll be miserable and you'll be on the streets. I think that is catastrophizing, and I don't think that. But I think too that just positivity in general when approaching these things is really crucial.

Kane Polakoff (01:05:53)

Yeah, no, well said, both of you. We're in a perfect storm right now. We have a huge demand for our services in the marketplace. We have the latest and greatest technology innovations that are put in place to support our practices. Where 20 years ago, I remember when I was working at Accenture and for large organizations, companies had to make millions of dollars of investments in technology. They would take a year to two years to deploy, and it would be awful. I mean, you have hundreds of people on these projects and doing that today in our marketplace, we can implement technology for thousands of dollars. We can implement sometimes within a day. It is amazing. We have that opportunity, and the market understands that we can help solve a lot of problems out there, and our clients need it and they want it. So for all of those out there that were in that 50% that said, "Hey, I don't want to do it,"

(01:06:54):

I think that there are roadmaps now. Maybe 10 years ago there wasn't a clear roadmap of what to do, how to do, when to do it, but you can do that now. And you don't have to take a big bite of the apple and jump right in and be overwhelmed. You can start slowly. There's nothing wrong with that. You can take your own pace. You can grow by one client or two clients or three clients, and that's okay. But my suggestion is if you don't take that leap or if you don't make that investment, everybody else is doing that now, and you're going to be left behind. And it's a big piece. We talked about cross-selling, about having this service that clients want this service, they understand the value that it provides, and it's only going to help out the rest of your firm. So take that time, learn, reach out, and I think this is only the beginning of what the future will be for us, and I'm excited. I look back. I have the best job in the world. I manage a great group of people, great clients, and I love what I do, and I hope I can do it for a long time, and I hope you guys can feel the same way as I do today.

Chris Gaetano (01:07:55)

Beautiful. Well, I want to thank all of you for all of your time, all of your expertise. Deborah, KC, Kane, it has been fantastic talking to all of you about this today. Now everyone in the audience, stay tuned. Don't go anywhere, because we have finally our closing remarks, which will take place in this very room, session, or what have you. But in the meanwhile, I have been, well, I still am, Chris Gaetano, Technology Editor for Accounting Today, and I will see you later.

Daniel Hood (01:08:34)

Alright, well, another fantastic session. Great stuff. I think KC summed it up best

in the future, all firms will be CAS firms, so that's something to look forward to. I think you got a lot of great advice on how to make CAS firms stronger, better. I think one of the clear lessons has to be intentional in a way that maybe other practice areas that have been around longer and have more generations of experience behind them don't have to. You need to be thinking about how you're running a CAS practice and being very intentional about it and being ready to change with it. That's one of the other big messages here today is change is inevitable in this practice area in a way, like I said, that it may not be for some other ones, because we're really still creating it as we go. It's only about 20 or 25 years or so old for the people who've been in it the longest.

(01:09:23):

I don't want to spend too much time. We've already had a lot of great talk on CAS, and I don't think I have much to add to it, but I just want a couple of quick things. One, remember to get your CPE form when you leave this room and go out to the thing. If you go to the home of the attendee home, the form is right there in the middle of your screen. You can't miss it. You do need to fill that out for any and all the sessions that you attended and make sure we get it by August 18th. I want to thank our sponsors, Canopy, Bill, Ignition, Tax Maverick. I want to thank all of our speakers again, Kane and KC and Deb. Tori and Kristen. Jody and Anna and Destiny. Thank you all for your insights, for sharing so much with us. I want to thank everybody for joining us in today's sessions. A lot of fantastic questions. We appreciate that. We appreciate your engagement. I want to invite you to future Accounting Today events. We've got another virtual summit like this in December on artificial intelligence, another hot topic. There's also our live event in Chicago in November on private equity. But with that, thank you all for attending. Thanks again to all our speakers and our sponsors, and have a great day.