Transcription:
Doug Lewis (00:08):
All right. Well I'm sorry that you all have to listening to this now, but here we are, so we'll make the best of it. How about that and the energy from this morning, if you could keep that going. Honestly, I was a little tired this morning, but the last couple of sessions kind of got me going, so let's keep it going. For those of you who have no clue who I am, my name's Doug Lewis, I'm with the Visionary Group. All my organization does is work with accounting firms coast to coast. We do a lot of M&A transactions. We help firms figure out their profitability, how to make more money at advisory services, all of this crazy stuff that's happening. And a big central theme of everything we talk about is the young professionals in this industry, the next generation of leadership. A lot of articles are written, a lot of webinars are done.
(00:49):
We're hearing a lot of opinions from people about what the next generation of leaders really want, what they like about the profession, what they dislike, things that might or might not be true about these generations. So we're going to air it all out here today, right from the horse's mouth themselves. So we've put together a great group, good looking group by the way, a great group here of young professionals, people who are going to be entering into leadership positions within the next few years inside of firms. So we're going to go through some questions about the industry, all this fun stuff, somewhere running around. Out here is Mike Max. Oh, Heather's here and Mike Max is in the back. We got microphones rolling around, so if you got questions, please ask them interrupt. We have some items we're going to go through, but best case scenario, we just answer what you care about because ultimately that's what we want to talk about here today. So I'm going to turn it over. Let everybody here just kind of introduce themselves, where they're from, the firm, all that favorite color, I dunno, whatever you guys want to do, why don't you kick it off?
Matt Shea (01:50):
Sure. My name is Matt Shea. I work for Platform Accounting Group and under Platform we've got a few different offices. So I'm in a smaller office of 12 people in Frazier, Colorado, Frazier Valley Tax and Consulting. I've been in the profession for nine years now. I'm a tax manager. I got my CPA and graduated from University of Maryland and then started with KPMG in Manhattan doing hedge fund and private equity tax. Realized that allocations and K1 prep wasn't my passion. So moved out of the city out to Colorado, get a better work-life balance and enjoy the outdoors and then transition into small business and individual attacks, which I definitely enjoy a lot more and to get a little more passion out of life. I also volunteer with Search and Rescue in Colorado, so get to take a break from taxes every now and then and rescue people up in the mountains.
Brianna Smith (02:51):
Well, hi everyone, my name is Brianna Smith and I'm a staff two accountant working in tax preparation and consulting and I work at Beasley, Mitchell & Co. We're a small to midsize firm with about a hundred employees. We have four locations now and I work in our Las Cruces, New Mexico location. I have been working in the accounting profession for about three and a half years. All of those have been at my current firm, Beasley Mitchell. I've been doing about a year of full-time work and then the other two and a half years were a mix of our different internship programs and part-time staff accounting. And I recently graduated with my master's back in June of 2023 and then a few months later in September obtained my CPA license.
Melissa Wasylewski (03:38):
Hi guys. So my name's Melissa Wasylewski and I am currently a Senior Tax Associate at Sparks & Company. We're located in Westlake Village, so about an hour north of Los Angeles. We have about 13 people at our firm now. We just added a new employee last week, so that's kind of fun. I graduated from California Lutheran University in 2021. I've been in the profession for four years now. All of them have been working with Sparks and Company and I specialize in tax, but we do a lot of everything at our firm. So I know how to do a whole lot of business and accounting work and let's see, I just got my CPA license in December of 2023 as well, so I'm very excited about that.
Doug Lewis (04:27):
Yeah, you can.
Darin Essa (04:31):
Hi everyone. My name is Darin Essa. I'm an Associate at Hutchinson & Bloodgood and I'm also a student at SDSU, finishing my master's degree. I'll be graduating in December. Our firm has five offices in California. We're a mid-size firm. I work primarily in tax. I do a lot of state and local compliance and international. My story's a little unique because I worked in hospitality management for about 10 years with COVID. I was able to kind of transition out and return to school and I worked in private industry for about two years before joining my firm about a year ago.
Doug Lewis (05:09):
Perfect, and that's actually a really good segue. He is a bit of a unique story. So kind of going down the line here, we'll kick it off with you, Matt, two-parter. Nice softball to kick it off. Nice and easy, low pressure. What drew you to the accounting profession and what drew you to your current firm?
Matt Shea (05:26):
I guess my mom's to blame for that one. Kind of checks out. Yeah, talked me into a steady career, but after exploring options in college, I guess career path laid out was what kind of attracted me. Just knowing, hey, you can, this is the set path and you can reach these goals and make X amount of dollars. That kind of was a nice, I guess safe bet for me coming out of college. So I did that and then started with big four and the pay of reaching partner and all that, that was definitely attractive, but then just looking around at my managers and senior managers and just seeing how miserable they all were was like, I've got it so easy right now and it just gets infinitely worse. So kind of just realized maybe partner at Big Four wasn't the passion in life for me. So kind of just transitioned in a smaller firm doing small businesses and individuals, which just actually helping people and getting to do that advisory work for them definitely drew me to the smaller firm.
Brianna Smith (06:41):
Yeah, I think for me it's somewhat similar. Definitely job security drew me to the profession. When I first started college, I knew I wanted to do something business related but wasn't sure exactly what aspect of business. And my very first accounting class, our professor, she told us if you want to do a profession where you're always going to have a job, you're always going to be in demand, good salary. It's not as intimidating as it seems that we should consider accounting. And then she had also introduced us to the graduate students who had already all had jobs lined up before they even graduated. And so I think that day I changed my major and I never looked back and what drew me to my current firm was probably our internship programs. I liked that we had the ability to do the internship during school, during tax season and throughout the year. I just didn't love the idea of going somewhere for three months as a summer internship program. I liked that I can use that as my income source throughout my college career. And then also I liked that it wasn't my hometown and I didn't have to move to a big city.
Melissa Wasylewski (07:51):
So similar to Brianna, I also always loved business. I always loved running things, being behind the scenes, planning things. So I knew I wanted to do something business related in college and I also didn't know what, but my first accounting course, I really fell in love with how everything always tied out if you did it correctly. So it was always kind of a puzzle to get everything to tie out and it made sense to me that just kind of everything clicked while others around me were kind of struggling with it. It just made sense in my mind and my professor told us accounting is the language of business, so if you learn accounting you can do anything you want and you can go anywhere you want. That really struck with me and I changed my major to accounting. I do like the job security of it, so that's also something else that really drew me to the profession.
(08:45):
I don't like the unknown, so always knowing that I'll be able to find a job was something I really wanted and needed in life. I also didn't know anything about accounting or taxes. I'm like if I go into it then I'll know everything and I won't need to worry about it in life. I already know it. And what attracted me to my current firm is that they're local to my hometown. They're only 20 minutes away from my house, so I didn't want to leave my home. So location was great. They were a small company, which I really wanted. I didn't want to do big four. After hearing all the stories of everyone working like 80 hour work weeks, I'm like, that doesn't sound like something I want to do, so I'm going to avoid that at all costs. So I went to a smaller company. We still have busy seasons, but they're not as, they don't require 80 hours from us to work there and I liked that at a small firm I could really learn everything and I could really learn one-on-one with the partners. They've taught me everything I know, I didn't know anything going into it and they've taught me everything and now I'm teaching the younger staff. So I really liked that.
Darin Essa (09:57):
I pivoted from hospitality management into accounting during COVID, like I said, mainly for stability. When I was experiencing all the ups and downs that the restaurant industry had brought, I really was looking inside myself to try to figure out what my next step would be. My mom, similar to others, had always told me, when you're looking on the job boards, you will always see openings for accountants. So that was initially a draw. I was also very interested in the back office aspects of my restaurant career, so I figured learning business, the language of business accounting would be the best fit for me. I chose my firm specifically because everyone else too, I was not attracted to the big four A work-life balance was important to me after working the grueling hours in the restaurant industry. I know accounting may seem like an odd choice to get a better work-life balance, but I found a mid-size firm that was really willing to take a shot on me and I love it because they provide flexibility, a great work-life balance, and I'm able to work on a variety of projects. I'm not pigeonholed to one industry or one type of tax return or anything like that.
Doug Lewis (11:11):
Alright, work life balance. The softball questions are over. Let's get pointed here. And by the way, feel free to jump in with your questions as well that are off script. There's a lot of stigma that the younger professionals, younger generations, not only in the accounting profession pretty much across the board, just don't want to work anymore. Personally. Yes, that makes sense for me, but from an accounting perspective, can you respond? Do you want to work hard? Do you want to work at all? Are you just lazy? Do you want to sit there and collect a paycheck? A lot of stigma around that kind of messaging out there in the marketplace. So I'll give you a break here, Matt, Brianna, you want to kick that off? What are your thoughts on that?
Brianna Smith (11:50):
I think there's a difference in working long hours and working hard. I'm definitely willing to work hard and support my team and try new projects and I don't think it's the fact that the younger generation doesn't want to work as hard. I think it's just a shift that I've been seeing in the generation that we just want to make sure we're focusing on what's important in life and just making sure that there's balance and that our job doesn't take over where other things should be first in our life. And so I think there's just that shift in not wanting to work an unreasonable amount of hours that can be construed as not wanting to work as hard.
Melissa Wasylewski (12:31):
Yeah, I agree. I I mean I have seen a lot of students, I just spoke at my school, my old university recently, and I know that a lot of students there are those who don't really put in the effort and don't study and just want everything kind of handed to them, but that's not everyone. There's still a lot of students out there who really want to work hard and who really are trying hard. So you just have to find those students and as Brianna said, it's not that we don't want to work hard. We will work hard during the work hours that we have. We just don't want to spend 80 hours in the office. We want to have a life outside of work. We want to see our friends, we want to see our families and have that opportunity. We're not working, we're not living to work, we're kind of just working so we can live the life that we want to live and we'll still put in all of our efforts into the workplace, but we don't want that to be our main priority in life.
Darin Essa (13:34):
Yeah, I would definitely agree with what they both said. I think that, like I said too, the work-life balance is extremely important. I do think that stigma is kind of an overgeneralization or a stereotype about the younger generation. There are hard workers, there are definitely people that want to promote up, but I think that the overall mindset is we shouldn't have to work 80 hours just because we say it's 80 hours. Can the work be done in 50 hours, 40 hours? Is the work getting done more effectively with less time mandated? I think those are all good questions to start asking. Imposing,
Matt Shea (14:13):
You've never worked a day in your life, so what are your thoughts on that working? Yeah, I think especially in the accounting industry, I just feel like it's kind of a cop out to just take that generalization and apply it to accountants, younger accountants. I mean realistically think about how much effort it took to get five years of education and then a CPA license and then go through that painful process. So I don't think we can bring that stereotype over as much into the accounting world. I mean it's a lot of effort and I think it's definitely less true for accountants and then think about it more as how are we measuring these younger accountants and what are you looking at and what metrics are you looking at to then get this idea in your head that the staff might be lazy and maybe change the way we're thinking about those metrics and thinking, how's revenue look? Are they producing more revenue and less hours? Are they just more efficient? So maybe just take a step back instead of just categorizing them as lazy. Just think about what you're looking at in that person too. Then I guess think about it that way and maybe there's other metrics we can look at.
Doug Lewis (15:22):
No, that makes sense and it's kind of a segue into another interesting topic. Flip it on the other side now everything's positive and rosy right now. Okay. What do you think is the greatest opportunity inside the profession over the next three to five years? What are firms not capitalizing on right now? It could be technology, process, recruiting, anything, advisory service lines. What do you see as, wow, this is going to be really exciting in the next three to five years in the account profession? We will reverse it this time. Darren, why don't you kick it off?
Darin Essa (15:56):
Sure. I think one of the main opportunities I see over the next three to five years would be technology. I think AI is a buzzword that can mean a lot of things to a lot of people, but I think using the technologies that are at the root of that and starting to integrate them with firms and with various practices is going to be very impactful. I think automation is an area that firms could really focus on a little bit more to free up some of the resources, especially in this accountant shortage.
Melissa Wasylewski (16:27):
Yeah, I agree with Darren. I think AI and implementing new technology in with accounting is going to be kind of where the profession's going and an opportunity for us to take even just some of the demos that have been around here with ai, the ability of their software, being able to answer simple questions, especially for new staff members so that they don't have to spend the time googling answers or trying to find the answer in a book or taking up time of partners if they don't have the time to answer or other managers being able to ask those simple questions that they're still learning about to something. A software that can provide kind of a more direct and helpful answer I think is going to be really helpful and help train the younger staff members and younger generations so that they can quickly move up and quickly get the work done as well.
Brianna Smith (17:21):
Yeah, I mean I think technology was definitely the first thing that came to mind and I think it can help to address some of the issues with younger staff and kind of the shortage that we're seeing there. But then also I think it can really improve the quality of work for existing staff and if we can take away some of those tasks that we don't enjoy as much and we can have a shift in more time to focus on what we enjoy, I think that can also help employee retention.
Matt Shea (17:51):
Yeah, I think everything we've kind of talked about the last two days and really figuring out ways to adopt those technology changes and adapt and adapt and adopt the technology that empowers these younger workers and motivates them and gets rid of that lazy feeling and thinking about how can we better utilize and get more efficiency out of our younger generation and just realizing we've got to adapt and retain these high performers and if we don't adopt new technology and we would just keep doing everything the way it's been done, those high performers are going to leave and go somewhere else.
Doug Lewis (18:33):
I appreciate that. I think we had a question in the back here.
Audience Member 1 (18:37):
So you brought up retention. This is specifically I think for the women, oh, the women in the middle because you both said that you have only been at your firm and nowhere else. So what did they do to want you to stay? Was it the work-life balance? Do they offer remote? How's the culture at the work? Because I know that that's just a big issue in today's.
Brianna Smith (19:00):
I think for me, I think them seeing my potential has helped me stay a lot. Even just my boss suggesting that I speak at this conference was a compliment to me and just giving me the opportunity to work on new projects and him taking me into client meetings and just giving me the opportunity to move up and do more advanced things. I feel like I'm valued as an employee, so that has helped me want to stay. And then I do just, I think we've gotten better and better about this year. They offered an extra week of vacation and they've improved our health benefits and they reduce the busy season hours a little bit. So just all these steps that they're taking that I see as their effort to try to make our work-life balance better has made me want to stay. Yeah,
Melissa Wasylewski (19:55):
I agree. I think them valuing me as an employee and valuing me for how quickly I learn things and how much I can pick up and learn and do instead of just how old I am and how far out of school I am has been really important. So them always teaching me new stuff, it doesn't matter if I've never done it before, they'll sit and they'll teach me and make sure that I understand it. Also, I really like the people at my firm. Since we are small, we all kind of know each other and we've all kind of grown close as employees and coworkers, so I really enjoy seeing them. We do also have the option of working from home or working remotely if we need it or if we want to do that. I like that flexibility because if I know I have an event happening, my brother just graduated last week, so I was able to work from home for that first morning half and then go to his graduation without worrying about taking PTO for that or having to drive extra and shift my schedule a lot more to accommodate that. So that's been really nice, those incentives and then mainly just how they value my performance and how much I can contribute to the company has been really nice. I just got my own office recently and that's kind of like, oh wow, I got my own office. Where else would I be getting that kind of treatment? And it really helps us wonder, you
Doug Lewis (21:21):
Were supposed to hold for applause there when you did that.
Melissa Wasylewski (21:23):
Sorry,
Doug Lewis (21:24):
You just went right through it. Thank you. Just flew right through that.
Melissa Wasylewski (21:28):
Sorry. But yeah, so it's just kind of like, I don't think I would be treated like that at a different firm, so I just haven't seen the need to look elsewhere yet. So I really like that.
Doug Lewis (21:39):
Another question in the front here,
Audience Member 2 (21:42):
This doesn't have to get back to your bosses or anything like that, but this is for the entire panel in terms of the work that you do, is there anything you wish that you were doing that you're not right now? I hear a lot of tax going on here and that's fine if you love tax, that's awesome. But is there anything you've been hearing here about this higher value work? There's other things you could be doing. Is there anything in your mind you're like, yeah, I wish I was doing this for being honest? It's for everybody.
Darin Essa (22:21):
I can start. My firm actually allows, I'm a tax associate, so I primarily work on the tax side. I do like tax, that's what I'm focusing my masters on. But we do have the ability to do a rotation through the a and a side if we want to learn more or if we want to work on projects like that. Our firm allows us to say what we want to do and then they'll try to put us in a project that works for it. So I haven't taken that step yet because I still want to be in tax, but that option is there.
Melissa Wasylewski (22:50):
Yeah, I think, I mean I'm mainly tax as well and I really like tax. I don't think I ever would want to go into audit just personally. And my firm doesn't really have audit projects anyways, but I do get to work on a lot of different of our variety of projects like payroll returns, sales tax, I do just normal bookkeeping and QuickBooks cleanup as well as respond to notices. So I don't feel like I need to do anything else work-wise because I already have such a big exposure to a lot of different work projects. So it keeps things interesting and I'm never bored.
Brianna Smith (23:26):
Yeah, I think for me I would be interested to take it beyond. Right now I am more in the compliance, just complete the tax return and my boss is more in the advisory and kind of speaking to the clients. I think I would like to take it to the next level where I can speak with clients as well, and I was in a breakout session yesterday and someone had mentioned at their firm that sometimes they have trouble with staff being able to take it to the next level, but beyond just getting the work done and kind of see those opportunities and what we can recommend to clients and additional work. And I think if I could get some guidance and procedures and just shadow a little bit more and kind of see how that conversations they come about, I think that would help me. I think right now I'm more hesitant just I feel like I don't know how to approach the conversation or honestly if I were to see some opportunities, I might be a little bit fearful that I wouldn't have the support to take on those new projects that maybe we haven't done before.
(24:32):
I might feel like it's all on me without any procedures. And
Doug Lewis (24:36):
So Brianna, you're saying that shadowing would be beneficial? So I think so if a partner takes you on a sales call, that's something that you'd actually be interested in doing because we do hear from a lot of partners that, oh, staff, they don't want to sell, they don't want to do this. They just want to go work their hours and collect their paycheck and call it a day. But if there was a program in place where there was type of live shadowing with a client and consultative kind of manner, that's something that you'd actually be interested in.
Brianna Smith (25:01):
And I think at our firm, they do try to give us guidance and have people to help us, but there's not really a defined mentorship program. And I think having mentors incentivized to help younger staff would definitely make my work more enjoyable.
Doug Lewis (25:18):
So you're not afraid to go talk to clients. That's another one of those big things in the room. Everyone's afraid to pick up the phone, they're afraid to go talk to people.
Brianna Smith (25:26):
No, I wouldn't say that I'm completely comfortable at all, but I just think those steps will help me to get to that comfort level.
Matt Shea (25:35):
Yeah, I've enjoyed, I guess especially the last couple of years, kind of taking on projects involving the tax law changes, especially employee retention credit, and when it came about, I just kind of realized the value in that and nobody was really stepping up to tap into that. So I offered to take on that project and get out there and get clients ERC, but I went to my director, I'm like, I can do this. It's going to be a lot of work, but I'm not just going to do it for free, so give me some kind of incentive percentage of revenue. And they were totally open to that. So it definitely incentivized me to then get millions of dollars for our clients. Without that I would just, why would I work extra hours if it's not going to benefit me? So being able to have that discussion I guess, and get incentivized for growing the firm, even at an earlier stage, it was definitely a big help for me.
Doug Lewis (26:34):
So again, there's some level of desire to do something other than just sit there and collect your check and all that fun. Okay, good.
Matt Shea (26:41):
It's just got to be, we hear that quite a bit on the table. Yeah.
Doug Lewis (26:44):
Again, all these stigmas out there, we're airing it out. I think we had another question up front here.
Audience Member 3 (26:49):
So I'm pretty young, I feel qualified to ask this question. Being an accountant is a great responsibility. Being a leader is an even greater one. Have you started addressing the partnership opportunities? Have you been invited to the succession plan meetings? Do you guys see yourself following that path? And have you been having those conversations with your firm partners?
Doug Lewis (27:09):
Who wants to take it?
Matt Shea (27:11):
Yeah, I can go first. Yeah, so my firm's a little different where our firm was acquired when our partner was looking to retire, and so we've got kind of a backing and larger management company. So there's not that I guess traditional partnership structure and that never, I guess kind of appealed to me buying into the partnership. It's like we can't even afford homes, so I don't know if I'm going to set aside a few hundred grand to buy into a partnership. And so for me, the opportunity there is a percentage of revenue and that's definitely more appealing to me than having to make this investment that isn't really attainable right now. So
Audience Member 3 (27:57):
Partner you're
Matt Shea (27:58):
Saying? Yes, and that to me seems kind of more appealing and maybe more appealing for our generation too, rather than buying into this traditional structure.
Brianna Smith (28:08):
I haven't really been involved in any of those discussions. And I think yesterday attending some sessions where Bonnie was talking about how 50% of women don't ever make that leap to ownership level and it was pretty eye-opening. And I think attending some of the other sessions that we're talking about like alternative structures to the partner system as it is right now, seeing the partner system, I don't know if the benefits would outweigh the cost for me right now, but with those new structures and everything, I'm definitely more optimistic to getting to that level
Melissa Wasylewski (28:49):
At my firm, we have somewhat talked about possible what the firm looks like in the future. Two out of the three partners are older at our firm, so I'm sure they'll be looking to retire pretty soon. And when we do work on their clients, they always tell us, oh, these are going to be your clients one day, so get used to dealing with them. And so I think there's kind of that idea there of them wanting to pass off their business to some of us in the more managerial staff positions now, just so that their clients know that they're going to be taken care of with the same procedures that they've in the same service that they've been receiving throughout the past years because we are learning straight from our partners. So I think there's been just little nods like that, but I guess that's kind of a conversation to have more in the future going forward, especially as they get closer to retirement and seeing where the company is at. Then
Darin Essa (29:50):
For me, excuse me, I have talked to my mentor a little bit about the desire to promote up, but I don't know what's wrong with my voice. Everyone, I'm sorry, I guess nerves, but I think for me personally, we're waiting for me to finish my master's and then finish the CPA before those conversations become real.
Doug Lewis (30:12):
But is there some level of desire to have those conversations on hundred, the basis understand what that path could look like? Understanding is going to be a little different. Again, a theme we're coming back to is maybe there's a little misunderstanding about generalizing younger professionals across the world, what they want, what they don't want. I think we had another question in front here.
Audience Member 3 (30:30):
There we go. Darren, this question's for you. I know no pressure. You took the alternative path and I'm curious, we could argue having been in industry first and then coming over to accounting, we could argue whether that's an advantage or a disadvantage, but from your standpoint, what's the biggest pro and biggest con of having been in industry before coming over to the accounting side versus your peers that college day one went into it?
Darin Essa (30:55):
Yeah, I think the pro is I was able to develop a variety in my skillset that maybe I wouldn't have gotten just from starting straight into public accounting. I think working in private industry accounting to was a benefit because I got to see what we're consulting to, if that makes sense. I think a negative though is you get accustomed in the private side in accounting to the eight to five kind of lifestyle, and that's not what working in a public accounting firm is. So I think the disadvantage was I did become accustomed to having downtime in my day or time to take a walk or whatever. So it's a little different in public accounting, but I do like it better.
Doug Lewis (31:44):
I think we had even another question over here as well.
Audience Member 4 (31:47):
So the question is might be a little bit of a challenging one, but I'll challenge you guys. I'm out of here. Everybody knows that there's the pipeline shortage. Everybody knows that there's not a lot less people going into the profession that there was. People have different thoughts on what it is that is causing that, but my question to you guys would be, as people who have chosen the right profession, in my opinion, what would you say is the preventer of folks to go into accounting?
Doug Lewis (32:22):
So what's kind of turning people away from the profession right now
Audience Member 4 (32:25):
And how do we correct that for the next generation?
Doug Lewis (32:30):
Who wants to take it?
Melissa Wasylewski (32:32):
I guess I'll go. So I just also recently spoke at my old campus and got some insights on this kind of stuff from an accounting class as well. And I think there's, as you mentioned, a lot of reasons. One of them is they're all kind of scared of the accounting profession of what they're going to go into because as I mentioned, I think a lot of younger generations want to have more of a work-life balance, and their perception of accounting is just it's only work, it's work all the time, a hundred percent work. And that's what they all said. They weren't looking forward to, they just, they're like, I don't want to work the super long hours. I don't want to deal with all the big four type of stuff. So I think that's one of the factors that just, they're used to seeing this as the norm in the profession.
(33:20):
So I think just kind of starting to change that out and promoting that, hey, no, we can make it work for what you guys want is a way to get more students into it. I think a lot of kids don't really go to high school and graduate saying, I want to be an accountant. It's not really something that you think about in high school. It's kind of more something you think about in college. So I guess maybe doing more outreach programs to high schoolers as well, just so that it's like, Hey, this exists and it's not what you think it is. There's so much you could do with it. And kind of marketing more of a, you can do anything with this profession instead of just, oh, you're only going to be sitting behind a desk looking at taxes or doing audits. You could do anything else you want with it. So I think kind of pushing that side of it is going to get more students to want to join the accounting field.
Doug Lewis (34:12):
Yeah, Hollywood has not helped the cause whatsoever. Let's be really honest about that. You ever see a cool accountant other than that one Ben Affleck movie? No, not really. That was all I got. Yeah. Brianna, you want to kick it off too? Yeah,
Brianna Smith (34:27):
I think you're saying there's just a lack of outreach to younger people about accounting and also just even in general, if I tell people I'm an accountant or in college when people would ask, what's your major? They're like, oh, you must be a genius. I can never do accounting. And I think that it's not as intimidating as it seems. And I think, like I said, when I took my very first accounting class and our professor was like, it's not as intimidating as it seems. It's more like a language that can be learned and it's more rules based. And I think just telling people that it's more accessible than you think would help
Doug Lewis (35:07):
Matt Thoughts.
Matt Shea (35:08):
Yeah, I mean I feel like the pay is just lagging behind the other professions and especially bonus structure for people starting out. I feel like it's definitely lagging and if you're going to work 80 hours a week, you might as well get paid twice as much to go do that in another profession. I feel like people are realizing that and kind of going a finance route maybe instead of public accounting. And we've got to I think, get that starting salary
Doug Lewis (35:37):
A little higher for starting accountants double the pay. That's good advice. I like that, Darren.
Darin Essa (35:42):
I also think just the amount of study and what's required to pass the CPA test can be a little prohibitive to a lot of people. When I started on my journey, I went back to school and I got my associate's degree, and then I got my undergrad in accounting and now I'm getting my master's and then I still have to take my CPA exam and then I am already working and I still sometimes feel like I don't know what I'm doing. So I think that I believe that the amount of schooling we do is relevant and it's necessary, but I think there could be some petitioning or some sort of lobbying to the accountancy boards or whatever to look at the way the CPA process goes and to adjust it. Right now with the CPA evolution, people are waiting almost six months to get their results from their test. And it's like, what if you didn't pass? You could have been studying that whole time. So there's just a lot of things where I think people look at it and it's like, whoa, that's a lot of work.
Doug Lewis (36:39):
Makes sense. I think we had another question up here as well.
Audience Member 5 (36:42):
Yeah, Good Morning. What advice do you have for recruiters going on campus? What's the best way to reach your generation to reach young graduates and what's the best way to communicate with your group?
Doug Lewis (36:54):
Oh, Brianna, you look like you're ready. You look like you had something to say there.
Brianna Smith (36:59):
I think recruiters have been doing really good lately. Actually, when I was in college, there was always different recruiting events and what I liked is that oftentimes the event was to promote their firm, but a lot of the times the events were just a way to help us improve on soft skills or they would have an Excel workshop that we could go learn different Excel things. And I think just also being very transparent with candidates, I think just being transparent about what's expected of them and how everyday work is going to be in that firm, I think. And then also I guess something maybe not recruiters would be in charge of, but I think the younger generation just really values flexibility above all. And so I think just being transparent about where that flexibility is. Do you have the option to, do you have be in the office Monday through Friday, eight to five? Is there the ability to do four tens? I think just being very transparent with candidates will help a better match. And so hopefully that helps employee retention down the road.
Melissa Wasylewski (38:09):
Yeah, I agree with Brianna. I think a lot of recruiters when I was in school, since we were a small university, we get a lot of local recruiters, so that kind of helped. They would always, like she said, teach us, look over our resumes with us and tell us what to expect in a day. So that transparency really helps with students wanting to go join your firm. Also, I think it's important to let students know that it's okay if you don't know anything going into the field and going into an entry level position. I know I had never worked with QuickBooks in my life. I had never done a tax return before I got hired at my firm. But just with basic schooling, as long as you have that you can learn everything else on the job. And I think just kind of making that part of the incentive of hiring and letting students know.
(39:08):
And if your firm isn't one who does that, it's like, okay, well we want you to have all these skills already learned. I think you're going to find it hard to find anyone to hire because in school they don't teach us that and it's hard to get experience if we can't start out somewhere. So just kind of having that openness of, okay, they don't know how to do anything technical wise, but as long as they can learn and learn quickly and be teachable, I think that's the most important part of hiring someone, especially someone who's coming out of school or just an entry level position.
Doug Lewis (39:45):
Darren, we'll give you a break on this one. Okay. Matt, what are your thoughts?
Matt Shea (39:48):
It's been a while, I guess since I was in school nine years ago and we had just a strong recruiting presence from big four. But I mean, just going off of what Melissa said, I dunno, maybe just explaining nothing you learned in school is going to prepare you for this job and that's okay. And that's what my first manager said to me, and I feel like it really hit home and it was like, okay, I'm going to ask questions then and really tap into that knowledge and just realizing the expectation isn't that you should know how to do these specific processes.
Doug Lewis (40:20):
Yeah, most of the college grads I see now know absolutely everything coming out of school. Crap. I wish I was making that up and that was a joke, but my God, I think we had another question over here as well.
Audience Member 6 (40:32):
Hi. When I was a staff accountant, the partners in our office decided there was this really fun thing they were going to do during busy season, which was whoever, whatever staff or senior associate work the most that week would get to park in a reserved parking space. And what was especially lame about it was that we would arrive at 6:00 AM and we would leave at 10:00 PM so you never had to worry about getting an optimal parking space. And my point of all of this is it was so clear that the partners were completely out of touch with how they were rewarding us and incentivizing us. So my question for the panel is what are these things that you've seen or you've heard of where you're like, seriously, I reserve parking spot? You don't know
Doug Lewis (41:22):
You're looking for bloopers of reward programs.
Audience Member 6 (41:27):
I know they're out there and I want to hear from their perspective of what they've heard about or what they've seen that they're like, you don't get it.
Doug Lewis (41:34):
And let's blanket. None of this happened at any of your current firms. This was all other firms that you've heard of?
Matt Shea (41:39):
Yeah, I think some of our bosses are out there. We need security to get them out of here for a second.
Doug Lewis (41:45):
If anybody's boss, it's a safe space, we'll take you out. Safe space everybody.
Matt Shea (41:49):
I would say just using hours as the main metric is what kind of always frustrated me the most and just setting that hour benchmark and it's like even if you're way more efficient than somebody else, you still aren't going to get that $3,000 bonus that you're just dying to get. And if you just work double the amount of hours, then you can get that. So just that was always the frustrating part. It's like we've got to be looking at other metrics like revenue and efficiency and helping other employees and training your other, the person sitting next to you and just realizing, taking a step back and just realizing we have to stop looking at hours and using that as the main metric and we've got to always consider it and for the big picture. But as far as measuring someone's performance, using that to reward people, I feel like is the biggest mistake that the older accountants are making.
Brianna Smith (42:46):
I can't think of anything specific like that. I mean, people always make jokes. We don't want pizza parties we want to raise, but I mean I would appreciate both.
Melissa Wasylewski (43:00):
Yes,
Brianna Smith (43:02):
I guess I agree. I think a lot of times, unfortunately longer hours, it can't coincide with hard work. But at the same time, I think maybe if there was an option to, if someone was willing to maybe get less of a bonus for working less, then that's their choice. Or if someone wants to work more hours and wants to get a higher bonus, maybe there's some type of flexibility there where there can be that decision. But I mean, I guess, I dunno how that would work in actuality. But
Melissa Wasylewski (43:36):
Yeah, I think I'm lucky enough that at my firm we don't really have something like that. Her boss is here. Yeah, my boss is also here. I, but I think my firm's been pretty flexible during busy season, they really only ask us to work like 55 hours a week and it's very manageable. And that kind of gives me the firepower to like, okay, well I hit my 55 hours but I really want to get this done. So I will definitely put in the extra overtime hours over that, but it's not an unattainable hour goal that we can't do. And I think they're always bringing us food if we're in the office, which is always a great perk if I don't have to worry about what I'm eating. And then it's just, I've heard stories of my bosses saying that during busy season they would be at the office till 2:00 AM throwing Nerf guns at each other and having chair races down the hall.
(44:36):
But personally, I don't want to do that. I want to be at home. So I think even having the option of remote work as something that we can do, I go into the office, I work my full hour day and then I can go home and eat dinner with my family, see my family and still get on afterwards and set myself up for the next day or do a couple more hours or finish something up. And I think that's, that kind of flexibility is really helpful for getting through busy season on top of whatever bonus to give us. So that's kind of the reward in my mind of what I want. That's how I want to work.
Doug Lewis (45:14):
Well, you are not going to like the networking event tonight because there's a Nerf gun battle right at the top.
(45:20):
I might have to switch it up there over there, Darin.
Darin Essa (45:23):
Yeah, I would say I don't really have any blooper type stories either to tell. My firm experience is really similar to Melissa where, so
Doug Lewis (45:31):
You can draw back to hospitality too. What's the ridiculous incentive program you've ever seen? Like I said, now this is a weird angle now.
Darin Essa (45:37):
Oh gosh, back then the kind of incentives we would get would be like, oh, if you pick up the shift or you do whatever, you get a free meal. And although that is nice, I think people really and myself really appreciate money a lot more than a free meal
Doug Lewis (45:58):
That checks out. I think we had a question.
Audience Member 6 (46:00):
I want to make it, sorry, I'm still keeping the mic. I want to respond to Melissa's comment because I think there was some real wisdom in it and as someone, it sparked something that I heard recently. So what she said was, if I'm asked to work 55 hours, I can do that. It's manageable. I can go home and I can have dinner with my family. And after busy season I had conversation with some firm leaders who are manager and above, and their commentary was, we said to the staff that we want them to work 55 hours during busy season, but these kids have no initiative. All they did was work 55 hours. And we heard earlier Brianna say, we just want to know is it four tens, whatever. And so that I think is the crux where it's like if you tell 'em 55, they're going to do it, but that's the top, that's the cap, the threshold. And if you really expect them to work 80, you need to be honest and say it and see who's actually going to work for you and stay working for you.
Doug Lewis (47:01):
Oh, I appreciate that. Another question over here, forget the prep. We did so much prep for this. We didn't. This was a waste of time. Go ahead.
Audience Member 7 (47:09):
So outside of getting your education and studying extra to pass the CCP exam, my perception of this generation is they're not willing to put in the hours outside of the office investing in their career. And so is that accurate? Is that fair is my question. So really what are you doing outside of working hours to whatever improve your skills?
Matt Shea (47:37):
Yeah, I think, I don't know. We've got one partner who sees me leave at five because I'm going to go walk my dog, eat dinner with my family and kind of just take a break and just see those people in my life. And he doesn't think that then I'm working when I get home. He can't do it. He doesn't understand logging on from home and he tells me stories. When I was your age, I had my sleeping bag here at the office and it's like, were you happy? It sounds terrible. And just realizing, okay, that was terrible for you, so why would you ever wish that upon anybody else? And just realizing we can go home, get that part of our life and kind of reset and put in some more hours outside of work, I think is totally doable. And that flexibility is what really I think is going to drive the younger generation to be able to handle those longer hours and to not go four months without seeing their family and sleeping on the floor.
Brianna Smith (48:39):
No, I think I definitely see what you're saying. I think for me, I can feel burnt out and so when I go home, I don't want to do anything accounting, but sometimes I do say there's a research topic, I'll go home and kind of look at it further or just try to keep current on some things. But a lot of the time it is just because burnt out and I just don't want to,
Melissa Wasylewski (49:03):
Yes,
Audience Member 8 (49:04):
That's the stuff I'm talking about, not doing another tax return.
Matt Shea (49:07):
Gotcha. Something.
Melissa Wasylewski (49:09):
Yeah. So I'm actually a part of my old university's accounting advisory board and we don't do much currently because new, but we do meet once every quarter and just kind of talk about what the trends are that we're seeing in accounting. And that's kind of something me wanting to stay connected to my university and trying to help those young accountants going in, talking to them about my experience is kind of how I'm working to grow my own professional career outside of work. We do our CPE credits and all that, and we do that sometimes outside of work, but that's kind of mainly how I'm focusing on growing that and kind of paying it forward to the profession just by staying connected to my local community and kind of giving them some tips and tricks and seeing what they have to say about it.
Darin Essa (50:04):
I try to listen to a lot of accounting and business related podcasts to stay up on the current and relevant issues. I subscribe to a lot of various accounting newsletters and e magazines to try to get info that way too. So I would say that's a lot of what I do outside of work. And then networking. I try to say yes to any event or anything I can just to kind of grow my own personal network and meet more people.
Doug Lewis (50:31):
I appreciate that. And I know we're turning some questions away. We do have to wrap for lunch here in a minute, but it's too bad. We were about to jump into politics here in a minute, so this timing actually worked out really well. Thank you all of you for sharing your unique experiences. I know there were some more questions we didn't get to. Please come up, talk to them, get their opinion. These are the next generation leaders inside firms. Their opinion is ultimately what matters, not mine. But thank you for your time today. I appreciate everyone through this.
Young Accountants Panel
June 5, 2024 3:13 PM
51:04