Angie Grissom of The Rainmaker Companies dives into why everyone in an accounting firm has a role to play in business development, and what those different roles are.
Transcription:
Dan Hood (00:03):
Welcome On the Air with Accounting Today, I'm editor-in-chief Dan Hood. For a long time, as far as most employees accounting firms knew, new clients just showed up pretty much as if by magic, largely due to the unseen efforts of the firm's rainmaker or rainmakers. But firms getting more intentional about their growth and about the specific kinds of clients they want to serve. Business development is becoming more and more of an issue the firms are focusing on here to talk about all that and how business development is really an issue for everyone at the firm is Angie Grissom. She's the owner of The Rainmaker Companies, who work closely with firms in this area as well as many, many, many, many, many others helping them grow and be successful. Angie, thanks for joining us.
Angie Grissom (00:37):
Thanks, Dan. Always, always enjoy our time together. Thanks for having me.
Dan Hood (00:41):
Always great to have you back. I want to start off by taking a step back and saying business is booming right? Things are great, accountants have more work than they could possibly handle. Why should they be focusing on business development?
Angie Grissom (00:53):
That's a great question and we get it here and there. I would say even when the tide is high, you still have to row the boat and business is not necessarily booming for all firms and it's not actually the right kind of growth necessarily as well. So it's really important to make sure that you're growing the right way in firms. But complacency is really the enemy of sustainable growth. And if people are only really thinking about business development when they're struggling or in doubt, then they're already behind. We saw this in the market dips, remember in oh eight and during the pandemic when a lot of people just sort of stopped with business development efforts and we found that the following year or years, those that continued the pace and continued the investment and the training and the focus and accountability were the ones that had the best years they ever had in the history of the firms because we need to continuously focus on building our pipeline, deepening relationships, and really, quite frankly developing the next generation of rainmakers.
Dan Hood (02:01):
Alright. Alright, good. You make a strong case for keeping in mind at all times. I was just making the case for lazy people who don't want to do business development. There you go. Strong race, strong reasons to keep thinking about it. In that case, let's talk about the business development mindset. I've heard you speak about the importance of making sure that your firm has that. What is it and how should they be thinking about business development?
Angie Grissom (02:25):
That's great, Dan. That's one of the issues I think a lot of firms run into is we rarely find accountants who graduated from college with the goal of going into sales and they think, oh my goodness, this was not my plan. And so they have sort of an image in their mind of what business development is, but what we do is we want to reframe that and I think it's an opportunity for everybody to think about it differently. It's not about sales in the traditional sense, it's about seeing possibilities everywhere. It's a way of thinking, I exist to help clients succeed and to help my firm grow through meaningful relationships because firms that are not growing are declining or dying because expenses continue to go up. It's about being curiosity driven, service focused, highly intentional. And I think when you talk about business development, mindset selling is helping and it's about showing up for your client holistically, looking at a client as a human, as an organization, how can you truly show up and help them?
(03:40):
And that's really the most rewarding thing any of us can do in our roles. And we often hear from people that have gone through different training or had a focus on BD saying, you know what, Angie, this is the most fun part of my job because it's simply showing up and doing something really great that I love for clients that need it. So reframing business development. The other thing that we find is that firms should be thinking about BD as a team sport, not a solo act. So it's, it's no longer just the job of a few rainmakers at the top. Everybody from the people that walk in the door right out of school to the managing partner should have a role in business development. And it's an exciting role and it creates a culture of growth. Business development mindset is less about closing deals and more about opening doors and it's opening doors for clients, for your team and for the future of the firm.
Dan Hood (04:48):
Well, I think we've talked about that the rainmaker used to be sort of one or two people's jobs and it was people who sort of naturally fell into it. I think a lot of cases for a lot of firms, it was just who's always our most extroverted person? Who's the person who most likes to get out and talk and they could handle that for the firm. But as you say, it's got to be more of a team sport. How do you get that business development mindset out to people? We said the rainmaker was comfortable saying, listen, I can help you. I can do anything you need or my people I work with could do anything you need to make your business better. How do you get everybody else at all other levels of the firm to think that way?
Angie Grissom (05:24):
Well, the first thing that's really funny because people do typically think about extroverted people and car salesmen and people that are sort of out there and very extroverted. And we have found through experience that, and it's funny because Mark Rosenberg actually used this quote in one of his books and sent it to me. We have found that the interested introvert is many times more successful as a rainmaker than the interesting extrovert. And if you think about that, it's because we are in the people business. We're not selling tires, we're not selling widgets. You hear me say all the time. It's a people business. And so when we are focused on the true needs and desires of the client and we're genuinely interested, then it sort of reframes it for everybody. So if everybody understands that they have the capacity and capability to contribute and it really does help the firm and helps their careers and reframes it from the beginning, they get excited about it.
(06:35):
We see it many, many firms and they're starting to invest a little bit earlier. I would say you start by normalizing the conversation. So business development shouldn't be some mysterious backroom activity that only the partners talk about. Nobody really knows what it is. It's scary, but it needs to be part of your firm's language, part of your strategy, something that you're sharing all the time. And the thing about business development at every level is you just meet people where they are currently. You might have somebody at the front desk answering the phone that has exceptional client service and asks how people are doing, mentions things, uncovers opportunity. You might have people that are very technically oriented that you can bring into opportunities. You might have those people that actually love to get out there and network and be connectors, and you just have to tap into what they're comfortable with. It's a matter of not forcing people to be somebody else. Once you say, we're just asking for you to be authentic and who you are, we're not asking you to act like Jim founding partner over here that pounded the pavement to built the firm. We want you to be who you are. The net that helps it
Dan Hood (07:52):
Wonderful who they are as someone who doesn't like to talk to anybody at all and doesn't want to deal with anybody at all and ly. But it's one of those things like how do you identify if we want to really be team support, you kind of need everybody involved. Maybe well going to, I would like to dive more deeply into certain at every level, but maybe one way to put it this way is how do you build this into people's work in the sense of how do you hold 'em accountable for it? How do you make sure that they're focused on it at whatever level is appropriate for them? Obviously for a partner level or a rainmaker level person, you can say, listen, how many new logos did you bring in? How much new business did you bring in? But for lots of other people, they can contribute in many important ways. You said the receptionist who's always interested in friendly and talking to people and engaging with them, that's a role and that's a valuable contribution to it, but how do you make that part of what they're accountable for?
Angie Grissom (08:41):
It's really not that difficult. It's about defining what success looks like at every level, just like you have regular competency levels for technical ability. What does success look like at every level in business development? Is it client service? Is it reach outs, introductions, follow-ups, sharing content? Most people are involved in social media, active on LinkedIn, resharing content from the firm's marketing department, just getting out there, attending events, hosting events. There are things everybody at every level can do. And I would say that just like when you're setting goals at every level in the organization, if growth is a priority, a strategic priority, we need to look through that lens when we are setting that expectation. And I'm really passionate about asking individuals, what do you love to do? The question of, have you ever gotten into something Dan, where you spend a lot of time doing something and you don't even realize that you've spent hours and hours doing it because it's just really cool work that you love doing.
(09:51):
We all have something like that. We call it your superpower. And everybody has a superpower. And even if it's the traditional green shade, I shade typical CPA that likes technical work, they can contribute through having clients spotlight meetings and really looking at the situation of the client and uncovering additional opportunities, attending a meeting with somebody or just giving insight. But the bottom line is we believe that everybody at every level can and should be involved in business development. It just looks differently than what they think. So build it into the competencies, hold them accountable by checking in on how many meetings did you attend and are you contributing in this way? And then hear from them what they find to be interesting. We even had a client that said, I hate typical networking events and a lot of people don't like those, of course. And we said, well, get involved in something that you like doing. And he said, I like kayaking. Okay, great. So join a kayaking club. He did, and he landed the biggest client he's ever had in the kayaking club because he was interested in kayaking and because he had conversations and made connections. It's as simple as that, as simple as that.
Dan Hood (11:12):
Right now suddenly that that firm has developed an enormous business in kayak sales and kayak development and kayak, the kayak business, the kayak world has, there's all kinds of crazy tax rules around kayaks. No, but sorry, the question is, if you go out and obviously one element, right, that makes perfect sense to go do what you love, but to bring some element of the firm to it, how do you make sure that people aren't going to the wrong people or doing the wrong thing or drumming up the wrong kind of business? Maybe one way to put it, what does everyone in the firm need to know about business development to make sure that we're all rowing in the same direction, we're not all just kind of out there, try to sell the firm in any way we can. What does everyone need to know?
Angie Grissom (11:54):
I love the question because it's a problem. Honestly, you would be amazed at how many professionals cannot identify or articulate their ideal client profile because a lot of times it's just not been a focus. But the reality of it is we've seen all of what's been happening over the last several years with the amount of client culling needed in organizations and the need truly to focus on clients that you can serve in the best way. So one of the first thing is to understand who you are as a firm and who your target clients are, because growth for the sake of growth is not great. We all love grandma. We do, we love grandma, but we don't need the grandma tax return referral. And so I'll stand in rooms of hundreds of people and say CPAs and say, raise your hand if your family is slightly confused about what you do for a living.
(12:57):
And everybody raises their hand. And the reason why is because they think tax, tax, tax, right? Well, so does everybody else. So it is our job to be able to articulate to our team who ideal clients are, and then it's our job in the firm to be able to articulate to potential clients, referral sources, family members, who we are and what we do, and the fact that it's not just this tax area and individual tax, for example. So people need to understand who the target is, they need to understand how to articulate the value of the firm, not to know everything about every service, but be able to bring somebody else in,
Dan Hood (13:48):
Makes perfect sense, know who you want to work with and what kind of work you want to do with them. That's it.
(13:52):
There you go. Brilliant. Alright, well I want to dive more deeply said, I think I mentioned this before. I want to dive more deeply into what business development might look like at every level of the firm or from the entry level up to partner level, just so we can get a sense of how people can participate in it. But before we do that, we're going to take a quick break. Alright, and we're back with Angie Grissom of the Rainmaker Companies talking about business development and why it's everybody's responsibility, a team sport, as Angie said. I mentioned that we talked broadly about what everybody needs to know about business development in terms of you need to know basically who the firm wants to work with and what kind of work they do. Even if it's outside of your own department, it's just say you don't need to know every single detail of it, but you certainly need to know that, oh yeah, our firm handles that.
(14:35):
Our firm does X and you need X. And I don't know anything about it, but I know our firm does it. So let me put you together with those people. And I mean, I guess that's the kind of thing that anybody can do. And as you understand your firm and you meet someone who looks like a good fit, anybody at any level of the firm can do that assuming they have a good knowledge of it. But let's assume, for instance, a lot of entry level staff, they can't sign deals, they can't commit the firm to anything like that. They're often not in a position to know good clients. Even if they know what a good client looks like, they may not know any of them. What's business development mindset going to look like for an entry level employee? What can and should they be doing to help boost the firm?
Angie Grissom (15:11):
Dan? The key is to start with curiosity, confidence and connection is what I would say it might look like. Taking the initiative to learn about the client, just be beyond the numbers to really ask questions. And the way you do that is by attending virtual or in-person meetings with a partner and listening in the meeting or having an opportunity to ask a question. The best leaders, the best managing partners that we know require that. And we have sat down with really high performing high growth firms, the best in the country and talk to their best in class new hires and said, what do you want more of? What do you need? And they're saying, we want to understand the client. We want to understand that we are actually making an impact. We don't know what to say to a client. We've just not learned that and we want to sit in these meetings and be invited to the table.
(16:09):
So just thinking about how to learn about the client beyond the numbers, asking questions like what are your biggest challenges? Giving them an opportunity to ask those questions to learn. The other thing is paying attention. When we were doing a lot of development content development work on the concept of advisory and trusted advisor, I was interviewing people that were within firms saying, what do we need to know about becoming a trusted advisor from your perspective? And those people that were hiring and training others said, you know what, it starts internally, Angie, meaning if they are responsive to other people internally and they are aware of trends and they're actually using cognitive skills and critical thinking about, hey, let's explore this trend or opportunity, or I'm seeing a pattern in clients and they're really picking up on those things, that's the first step in them becoming a really good client server trusted advisor.
(17:17):
But it starts internally. So attending networking events is good too because they learn how to have conversations and be professional and it's not ever to sell. Those networking events are not to pitch. They're to build confidence and relationships and learn and just get some practice. And when we reframe it and they start looking at networking events like that at that early age, they like to go to, if they think that they have to show up and sell the firm, they're scared to death and they hide under their desk. So it's about reframing it, giving them opportunities and making it safe for them to ask questions and learn.
Dan Hood (18:00):
I think that ask questions and learn, right? That's a key element. More and more firms are waking up to the need to bring staff on, even lowest level staff, bringing them into meetings, having them in the room with the clients. And I remember talking at some point a long time ago with someone who would talk about, they would bring in people and sort what's the point? And they'd say, because they don't know anything and they can't really contribute anything to the meeting, they should be sitting there and writing down questions about everything they don't understand. The first thing would be to say, listen, you should come out of that meeting with is a list of questions about the client and about me as the partner, what I'm doing. Why am I talking this way to the client and not that way? Why am I not mentioning these things?
(18:39):
Why am I mentioning these things? Why did I ask that question? Why did the client say this? What does this mean? Just come away with you're not, as you say, in most of the cases, this level you're not able to sell. You're not in a position to sell. You don't have the knowledge or the experience or the understanding of the firm or the clients. But what you can do is ask a lot of questions, not during the meeting, that would be weird, but to come home with a dozen questions about what does this mean? Why do we do this? And that kind of thing is a great way to kick that off.
Angie Grissom (19:04):
Yeah,
Dan Hood (19:05):
Excellent. Alright, so that's the entry-level employees as we move up. So you get to more of a senior or a manager level. What role, how has the role changed? What new things might they be doing? What's their responsibilities look like?
Angie Grissom (19:19):
It's a great level, the mid-level team members in a powerful position because they're experienced enough at this point to see more of the big picture because they're seeing trends like we talked about. They're seeing things happen in a specific industry or niche or within clients and they're still close enough to the day-to-day to build authentic, trusting relationships with clients. Again, it's not just about the technical work, but I would say at this stage it's about owning your voice. It's about moving from task execution to strategic thinking when it comes to the approach of the client. We do a lot of work at this area and it comes down to giving them a framework and a process. When you think about business development, it feels like there are all these things floating around best practices here and there and marketing and bd and what's the difference and what should I be doing?
(20:16):
And what we're competing with quite frankly are a billion deadlines. There's a deadline every time you turn around and they love to use it as an excuse, oh my gosh, I have another deadline. And when it comes down to it, people will spend time working on things that they have a comfort doing. And so they tend to shy away from bd. So I think the key there at that level is number one, reframing business development. Selling is helping it absolutely is giving them exposure, having them in the meetings, providing a framework. We have a framework that we call teams that we teach around, and it just shows them how to move a relationship, whether it's a client or prospect through a process over time where they're uncovering needs on an ongoing basis and they're introducing the right people and they're co-developing with a client. When you give them frameworks, they love a framework because it allows them to follow best practices in certain areas.
(21:11):
And BD is an art and a science. Providing a framework, providing the expectation, having an internal coach, holding them accountable to the things that they need to be doing. They need to be networking, they need to be out building their own brand. They need to have a voice in social media where I tell everybody, you've got about 10 seconds on LinkedIn for people to look at your profile and say, do I want to connect with 'em or not? And if it says, if your LinkedIn profile says, hi, my name is Angie Adams, I'm a CPA at a b, c, well that's captivating. Nobody's going to that. But the reality of it is we're much more interesting than that. And so if you can position yourself from the beginning and show what you do and what your superpowers are and what you focus on, it is so interesting, Dan, because in this profession, we doubt the power that we have and the influence that we have for so many business owners across the country. And we work with attorneys sometimes and they'll charge you a hundred dollars if you think about 'em, you send an email, it's 500, but this profession, they tend to think, oh my gosh, am I worth it? Am I making a difference? The answer is yes. Number one, believe that. And number two, communicate that through your profile. Communicate that through your questions, get out there, network, have a business development goal and cross-selling new business. There are so many things you can do at that level.
Dan Hood (22:53):
Excellent. Alright, well let's move up the chain. And I think we're starting to get towards the partner level. And I think the assumption for a lot of people is, well, partners should be bringing in a new business, should be selling, but are there differences at different levels? Is there a difference between being, say, a line partner and being the owner of an entire service line? Or do we expect different levels of BD from different levels of partner?
Angie Grissom (23:13):
For sure. And I believe that business development is a leadership skill and training in both overlaps back and forth, but business development is a leadership skill. It should be happening at the partner level, whether you are running an industry group or niche or segment for service line leaders and senior partners, the focus should be on vision, relationships and probably leverage. So they still engage in the individual business development activity in the group. But the biggest role, the bigger role at that level and it's absolutely necessary is I would say the orchestration of growth. And so if you think about how do you drive growth in your area, how are you strategic, how do you align what industries and service lines across the firm, that intersection, how do you facilitate conversations and growth so that the firm is truly working together in those areas? Because one of the biggest barriers and issues is the silo effect.
(24:21):
I'm only focusing on the work that I do. This is how people typically feel. I am a hammer looking for a nail if it's tax, if it's audit, whatever it is. And so for a service line leader, it's about driving the strategy of growth in their area, looking across the firm, looking at across cross section of how they can serve and facilitating regular, we call them growth team meetings where people are held accountable, where you're putting clients and prospects in the center of the table and taking a look at how can we truly serve them in the best way as a firm. Those firms that get that are going to win because there's so many distractions. Everybody's focused on their own book, they're focused on deadlines, they're focused on all this stuff, but you've really got to create that opportunity coaching your team on business development best practices.
(25:18):
Absolutely. Monitoring pipeline activity, making it a non-negotiable. We worked with a firm every Monday afternoon, they would have a all partner meeting and you better show up and you better report on your pipeline and they grew faster than their competition. So there are lots of ways we have firms we work with that require people to go through training and hit certain milestones before they're even considered for partnership and they grow faster than the competition. So it's taking ownership at that level. And then of course there's creating visibility in the market through speaking, publishing, thought leadership. That's absolutely expected at that level. But the questions they need to ask, are we positioned to grow in the right places? Do we have the right people focused on the right opportunities?
Dan Hood (26:11):
Yeah, well, I say it is a team sport, but at some point somebody on top has to be, have a playbook for everyone to read from. So very cool. And more and more, as we say, this needs to be intentional. Too many firms have been said, clients are out there, there's lots of work. But if you want the right work and you want to grow, you got to follow that. Excellent. We could talk for a lot more about this because it's a big topic and it's one that firms need to really build their skills around, but we don't have much more time, so maybe we just wrap it up. Any final thoughts as firms, as people go away from this podcast, things they need to be thinking about when they think about business development at their firms?
Angie Grissom_ (26:47):
Absolutely. Business development is critical and growth is critical. We are in a profession that is evolving fast. We've got ai, we've got private equity, we've got many, many changes that are happening very, very fast. Technology is advancing. We know that client expectations are shifting and have been, and competition is no longer just the firm across the street or across town. It's certainly global, automated, and I would say even a little bit relentless, Dan. So firms that want to grow sustainably cannot just rely on old models. What got them there will not necessarily get them to the next level, but they need to intentionally invest in their people through training, through coaching, through accountability. They need to make it a priority. And if you don't do it, you fall behind your talent leaves, your clients outgrew you, your firm becomes reactive instead of resilient. It's a great opportunity for everybody. And the bottom line is it's a whole lot of fun because building relationships, making friends in business, involving people at every level, what's more fun than that? It makes the technical work even more fun because it's more valuable. I would say Don't wait. The time is now. Create that growth culture. Figure out who you are, empower your people and get to it because it's time to grow, for sure.
Dan Hood (28:20):
There you go. Excellent. Great advice, Angie Grissom of The Rainmaker Companies. Thanks so much for joining us.
Angie Grissom (28:25):
Thanks, Dan.
Dan Hood (28:27):
And thank you all for this episode of On the Air was produced by Accounting Today with audio production by Adnan Khan. Rate or review us on your favorite podcast platform and see the rest of our content on accounting today.com. Thanks again to our guest and thank you for listening.