The Internal Revenue Service reacted Tuesday to the surprise ruling Friday by a federal judge striking down the IRS’s authority to regulate tax preparers, shutting down its Preparer Tax Identification Number registration system and its testing system for tax preparers.
U.S. District Court Judge James E. Boasberg ruled against the IRS and in favor of three tax preparers who filed suit with the help of a libertarian law firm, enjoining the agency against enforcing its Registered Tax Return Preparer requirements (see Court Rules IRS Doesn’t Have the Authority to Regulate Tax Preparers).
“As of Friday, Jan. 18, 2013, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia has enjoined the Internal Revenue Service from enforcing the regulatory requirements for registered tax return preparers,” the IRS said in a statement Tuesday. “In accordance with this order, tax return preparers covered by this program are not currently required to register with the IRS, to complete competency testing or secure continuing education. The ruling does not affect the regulatory practice requirements for CPAs, attorneys, enrolled agents, enrolled retirement plan agents or enrolled actuaries.
“The Internal Revenue Service, working with the Department of Justice, continues to have confidence in the scope of its authority to administer this program,” the IRS added. “It is considering how best to address the court’s order and will take further action shortly. Please continue to check this site as additional information becomes available.”
IRS spokesman Dean Patterson said Tuesday that the IRS had no further comment at this time.
The director of the IRS’s Return Preparer Office, Carol Campbell, held a brief conference call Tuesday afternoon with representatives of approximately 25 stakeholder associations such as the National Association of Tax Professionals. Campbell verified that the online PTIN system is down and the IRS is no longer allowing the scheduling of RTRP exams. The IRS also told participants on the conference call that the RTRP testing system would go down by the end of the day, and if preparers have an exam scheduled, they would not be able to take it.
Paul Cinquemani, director of government relations at the NATP, who was on the call, said Campbell told them, “I thought about taking questions, but frankly, we don’t have all the answers.” Cinquemani also reported that Campbell encouraged the participants on the call to send in their questions, so the IRS could take them into consideration as it determines how to move forward.
Cinquemani believes the PTIN registration system will only be down temporarily. The system for registering to take the RTRP exam was handled through the PTIN registration system, so the former was most likely closed down to disentangle it from the latter.
In the case challenging the IRS’s authority to regulate tax preparers, three independent tax preparers—Sabina Loving of Chicago, John Gambino of Hoboken, N.J., and Elmer Kilian of Eagle, Wis.—joined forces with the Institute for Justice, a libertarian public interest law firm, in filing suit against the IRS in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.
“The decision in the Loving case took most people in the industry by surprise,” said Cinquemani. “There is a clamor for information and answers to questions that just won’t be available for weeks, if not months. The IRS released a statement today that did not reveal much. One could read an intent, in the second paragraph, to pursue the court decision further. It seems to me that the IRS has the following options available: They could appeal the court’s decision and ask for a stay of the injunction in the interim; they could go ask Congress for a piece of legislation that would grant them the authority denied by the court; or they could consent and comply with the decision. If they did this, they could either abandon the registered tax return program entirely, or make it a voluntary credential to be earned as the EA designation is.”
The National Association of Enrolled Agents also weighed in on the decision. “This decision is—at least temporarily—a setback for taxpayers, and for tax administration,” said Robert Kerr, senior director of government relations at the NAEA, which represents over 45,000 enrolled agent tax practitioners. “Some would argue, in fact, that the decision is a victory for those who would like the right to remain incompetent, to remain completely ignorant of the many annual changes in tax law and administrative procedure, and to foist the cost of their willful ignorance onto their clients.”
Fred Slater, CPA, managing member of New York City-based tax prep firm MS1040 LLC and former chair of the New York State Society of CPAs’ IRS Relations Committee, said he agrees with the judge’s decision in the case. “I think it’s a good decision in terms of reality because what has happened is the IRS set up all these guidelines to try to ‘regulate’ the tax preparers, and then once they did that they proceeded to exclude the CPA, the enrolled agents, to some degree, and the tax attorneys so you ended up with a dual system, which is fine because that’s the practicality of what each side services,” he said. “Then they proceeded to put out rules of what both sides are supposed to follow, and you can’t do that. You end up with this situation where everyone is registering, and paying 60-something bucks every year to prepare tax returns. What could happen and what I’m hoping will happen is that Congress will respond to it, not the IRS, and come out with two sets of rules. There should be a set of rules for those that are not enrolled, not CPAs and not tax attorneys, because they don’t have the official training, and they don’t have the ethics codes that we have to have. I’m not saying that all CPAs and attorneys are perfect, but that’s the group that is the most out of control and they are trying to regulate that.”
He also sees a role for the states regulating the tax preparation profession if Congress is unable to pass a law, but he pointed out that many tax preparers have clients in multiple states. Currently only two states have laws requiring registration, testing or continuing education of tax preparers: California and Oregon. Congress has reportedly failed to pass eight different bills over the past decade aimed at giving the IRS the ability to regulate tax preparers.
65 Comments
I have just read all 64 comments. I have mixed feelings about all of this because while I do see a need to "clean house" of all the incompetent tax preparers, I also feel that as a tax professional for over 38 years, I should not at this point be required to take a competency test or pay for continuing education. I would agree to taking a one time FREE test to prove my competency, but to continue to take classes and pay all those fees is not in the best interest of my clients or myself.
My audit record is impeccable and I do educate myself diligently regarding tax issues and tax changes each year.
I am very fair with my price structure for my clients who are mostly retired people, many of which are on a fixed income. I have tried to continue to service them without a price increase. The software is becoming more expensive every year and now if we are required to take exams and pay for education just to stay in business, I will have to pass that expense on to my clients.
So, who really wins here? Not the taxpayer...
If this program is reinstated, I would like to see some type of program to grandfather in those of us who have been doing a good job for many years.
I believe the IRS should target those preparers who just take a short class before tax time and go to the franchises. They learn to enter information from a source document onto the software. Most of them do not know very much about taxation and tax laws. Those are the ones who should be tested and made to take the continuing education courses.
I do not believe small businesses like car dealership, etc. should be allowed to set up in kiosks in their place of business and hire tax preparers to prepare returns for their customers and then get them a rapid refund so they can purchase products while they are in the store. That is a big mistake and it should not be allowed.
I am glad that for once, I procrastinated and did not spend any money except to get my PTIN. Those that did should be entitled to a refund of some sort.
TAXLADY IN FLORIDA Orchidlover56
Posted by: Orchidlover56 | January 28, 2013 7:55 PM
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As a State Registered Tax Preparer, I was miffed about these new requirements and testing. In only 2 states (Oregon and California), preparers are already held accountable for testing and education (on both the Federal AND State level by the way). I think what is causing some of the anger I see in this forum is there are qualified preparers out there, and we ALL make mistakes (including CPA's, attorneys, H&R Block, just to mention a few of those EXEMPT from this test). I realize that CPA's have continuing education requirements, but they do NOT have to focus on taxation OR take any tests (and several that I know do not). So, if the IRS is going to do this for tax preparers, it should be all encompassing, to include all of the above mentioned professionals as well. For example: CPA's should be required to include in their yearly education requirements, a certain number of hours of tax law, the same amount as everyone else. Many do, some don't. Why should they be exempt? I believe their CPA exam did include taxation, so they should be exempt from the test if the exam is deemed sufficient, but not the continuing education focused on TAXATION. I've found errors on CPA prepared returns, we're ALL HUMAN. It is prejudiced to target the 'lowly preparer' (who in fact may be more informed than some CPA's or attorneys, and to be fair, of course vice versa as well). I never disparage ridicule any of THEIR profession, even when I find errors or omissions. I tell my client, it's human error...period and give them the option to go back to their prior preparer after I've reviewed their return or I'll do it for them. THAT is ethical. We're all in the same business here, let's try to get along!
Additionally, I am shocked and always have been that more states do not have the requirements that Oregon and California do. THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM! If the IRS is going to exclude other professionals (CPA's, etc. as listed previously) from these requirements, then California and Oregon preparers should be excluded as well! We've already done our testing and we continue to do our education on a yearly basis. It's not fair to subject us to 'double duty' and expense. WHY isn't this brought to the STATE level and the STATES handle this? I agree that tax preparers should be knowledgeable and capable of preparing tax returns, and I'm sure there are many out there that just 'hang a shingle' and 'let the software do it for them' and so on (garbage in/garbage out). But punishing everyone for the 'bad apples' is not the way to go.
You CPA's and attorneys out there complaining about 'incompetent' preparers should not mind taking the test as well. After all, many of you do not even take the hours of continuing education we in Oregon and California are required to maintain. I'm not saying ALL of you, but if we're going to pick on preparers, let's get the WHOLE STORY STRAIGHT for ALL tax professionals.
This whole debacle could have been avoided if the IRS had not jumped the gun and thought it out. First: Either require EVERYONE who has not already been required to test for their 'right to practice' and do continuing education yearly to do this. Second: EXEMPT those who have, including tax preparers in the States that have already had these requirements in place for decades. THIRD: Make this across the board, be it preparer, CPA, large firms with employees they supposedly 'supervise', and attorneys. I do find it interesting that all of the above are the ones who LOBBIED for this, and exempted THEMSELVES. It wreaks of trying to weed out the small businesses and sole practitioners...in other words COMPETITION.
We are all accountable for preparing proper returns. I do not mind preparers being required to do an initial test and continue their education on a yearly basis, I was!!!!...but only those who HAVE NOT already done so and continue their education yearly should have been the ones subjected to all of this. At least leave the California and Oregon preparers alone, we've done our time and continue to do so.
Posted by: Angie123 | January 26, 2013 3:05 PM
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This is what I don't understand. The IRS has plenty of information on individual tax preparers who file electronically. They demanded finger prints and a background check before authorizing. Plus they have all the information required to obtain a PTIN. With all the resources available to the IRS, it seems a simple task to segregate preparers who are negligent in preparing returns. Surely they have a compilation of audit results, tied to the preparer. If there is a history of non-compliance, they have the information to directly deal with that preparer. All this testing, registering, etc. is, in my opinion, simply another bureaucratic layer that costs us more money and wasted time. I also believe it caters to the BIG firms, trying to squeeze out the small preparers in order to get a bigger piece of the pie.
I've been preparing returns for 30 years. My audit record is impeccable. I pursue constant education in order to serve my client's best interests in providing them high quality professional services.
I took the test. I passed. I did not feel it was in any way a reflection on what kind of preparer I am.
The IRS just needs to do its job in pursuing bad preparers and leave the rest of us alone.
Posted by: alaskajane | January 24, 2013 3:47 PM
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Sad day as taxpayers lose because of the incompetence and fraud committed more by non-licensed and non-regulated tax preparers than the licensed professionals.. there is no real consumer protection in this field until AFTER the damage has been done to the consumer and sometimes it is life-shattering!! FYI, no idea how many times I have had to look at someone in the eye and go "So, you prepared your own tax returns?" We now have insurance and financial planners (who ARE licensed in their respective fields) doing tax returns, at extremely low prices, in order to snag people and sell them either insurance or financial services!! We now have accountants preparing tax returns at Mickey D's etal!! It is my understanding the reason for the training and licensing and regulations is to enable the IRS to more easily pursue the non-licensed preparers as well as the percentage of incompetence by the non-licensed preparers is that high AND harming taxpayers!! This profession needs to come out of the gutter or the barroom or the back of Mickey D's !!
Posted by: TaxLadyEA | January 24, 2013 2:09 PM
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I was very happy and excited to learn that the IRS wants to regulate those "crook" tax professional that don't even bother updating themselves with the tax laws and low-balling their fees. I do hope that Congress pass the law in regulating the tax professionals because in doing so this will eventually eliminate those that don't like to study at all.
Another thing that would stop the tax scam is: 1. If the IRS stop giving, giving, and giving ALL of the EITC, and so forth and so on. If they look at PR, their gov.t don't give much. 2. "Do-it-yourself" efiling through Turbotax or what have you. There's no way the IRS can stop people from doing all the dirty work because the TP are looking to get money any which way they can. If the IRS makes TP go to a tax professional who really do have PTIN and has registered for it thus, screened in this way, it'll minimize the tax scams. People lie just to get the money.
Posted by: fortunatemove | January 24, 2013 10:45 AM
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According to the IRS, as of June 12 340,000 preparers are required to take the RTRP exam, but only about 4,800 have passed (1.4%) So, this is why they stopped the exam. Lack of qualified applicants.
Posted by: oldnews2 | January 24, 2013 10:12 AM
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I thought the requirement to become a Registered preparer was good for business. It gave validity to my years of practice and education without having to become a CPA. I also thought that it was the big box stores that were behind the registration as they had their own schools to which only their employees could go, and they also had high turnover due to honest preparers leaving to go out on their own rather than rape their clients with exorbitant preparation fees and mandatory quotas to up-sell other products that the client really did not need. Perhaps the IRS needs to find out why the big block stores feel it necessary to charge on average 3 to 5 times what the "little guy" charges. I have made calls to check what fees the competition charges, (a practice I was required to do when I worked at one of the big box stores) and can not fathom what extra special things they do to warrant charging a single tax payer with only 1 w-2 over $150 to do a return.
Posted by: rennaemcintosh | January 23, 2013 11:39 PM
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I don't think anyone should get comfortable that this is the final word---that RTRPs won't have to test. The IRS has the power to regulate and they or another govt agency should. I've worked for the big tax chains before as a manager/tax preparer. I was always on the look out for dishonesty in the preparers, and believe me, it is there with some. But for the most part, I believe with good training, and the putting in the work to learn more, is key. Testing is just an end result. I already took the test and passed, and I recommend all preparers take it. As to the CPE credits: I always take more than the minimum CPEs required because I love my work! I want to know more and more! I am an honest and competent preparer with few or no errors, but it came from being strongly interested in study of the tax codes. Lazy students make lazy preparers. If you have no enthusiasm for learning your profession, get out of it. Lazy, incompetent and dishonest preparers hurt our whole industry. There is alot of turn-over in tax preparation because it is not easy to know so much. The computer may make it easier to put it together, but in the review, I'd better know what I should be seeing on the return and to know what, if anything should be changed or is missing. You have to know tax laws and your responsibilities to your customer, your company and to yourself. I'm sick of the whiners who find it hard and like stubborn children don't want to do the work! Get over yourselves! To be in ANY professional business, you HAVE to know your stuff. We should not be fighting to NOT take the testing and continuing education. We should be fighting for everyone to take it. I think we need to weed out incompetent, seasonal preparers who drop out of taxes the first day they can. Those types should not be in this profession. They make a bad name for those of us who are trying to be better and better and more knowledgeable each year. Those who keep up on the laws. This is not a job, it's a career choice. Get out if you can't take the heat!!
Posted by: oneilln | January 23, 2013 8:41 PM
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I just wanted to use an example to support my comment. I feel that this was all about eliminating the cheap competition for the big corporations to continue to gouge tax clients by over charging them. Ex Ethics Several years ago a lady approached me and requested that I do her tax return. After asking for ids, w2's, and all the legal type of forms for a simple individual tax return she informed me that she did not have them and did not need them, so I refused to do her return. She went to one of the leading income tax firms and returned with a copy of a valid return she had filed with them where she had a refund of several thousands(EIC). She said see, you could've made this money.
Posted by: mshackleford | January 23, 2013 8:29 PM
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It is a good think IRS has done Because most of us That do Taxes Including CPA and what ever get in a rudd and do not cover all the rule and regs that IRS has,we remember what we do all the time , but when some jump up we are not sure we have to go to the books or asked a friend that does that type of thing, so we are not perfect so we can make mistakes So by having our test, and the education ea years isnt really a lot, and it jars our memory, and people will have more faith in us, And we all know and proably done is give a clint a break that we shouldnt have.And I would bet 99% of you done it.And then there somee that dont know to much that just fiil out the 1040 not really know what he doing, and there some that cheat bad just to make a few dollars.So what IRS is doing Getting rid of some that cheat, and some that dont know what thier doing, and making the rest get off their Butts and do what their suppose to do is study more on what your weak on and when you think you know most of it you wont be scare of IRS and you will make more money because you learned more of the income business. So I hope IRS wins because its the right thing to do, earn your living and proctect it. I know some of you wont like this but to bad get out of the business , and go get your hands dirty for 7.00 Dollars a Hour.I dont kike sry babys and there some of you are exactly that. Sorry, ops No Im not.
Posted by: David5110 | January 23, 2013 6:29 PM
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California Tax Preparers already have requirements to be proficient every year--15 hours for Federal and 5 for State. I honestly don't quite understand why we had to take the RTRP. IRS just duplicated CTEC and added additional expense for us. Only states who don't have such requirements should be mandated.
Posted by: Ercarreon | January 23, 2013 6:27 PM
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The sad part is for the taxpayer. I have gained a few clients because of preparers using turbotax or H&R Block home to prepare taxes for profit. Making the independents test is not going to fix the real problem. The real problem are those who are not educated and believe that these packaged products are good for taxpayers. STOP the production of the boxed software. I use a program that can only be used by an ERO. That program stops most others from filing taxes when they don't have some kind of credential. Those who are honest and do keep up on tax law from year to year should not have a problem with testing and maintaining CE hours. I have been doing accounting and taxes for 45 years and did not mind taking the test and CE's. It was a pleasure as I keep up and know tax law. Every "PROFESSIONAL" who is independent should feel the same.
Posted by: jmarkusic | January 23, 2013 4:58 PM
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If you can't pass this test you SHOULD NOT be able to do returns for $! It is just that simple. ALL required answers are contained in the circulars provided OR are simple calculation or a quick look up on a chart (also provided) I did zero prep for exam (I took it VERY early in process) AND I was the first done at my testing facility! Yes I didn't have to look everything up ( I have been a preparer for years)and I am admittedly a good tester and a fast reader. BUT, as paid preparers we MUST have standards. I lve in Florida the fraud capital of just about everwhere, so I have turned away clients who I am sure were commiting fraud, and when with a large firm we also lost customers to the fly by night diwn tge street who did taxes WRONG and then went on to steal ids (ss#) for Id and tax fraud. All of this really doesn't effect me much as a sole practioner I have been fingerprinted by IRS,so I can be an efile provider.The only thing I guess is the fact that I have spent $ for credentials which are now basically worthless. Oh Well, perhaps next year I will become an EA!!
Posted by: sheenstir | January 23, 2013 4:13 PM
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If you can't pass this test you SHOULD NOT be able to do returns for $! It is just that simple. ALL required answers are contained in the circulars provided OR are simple calculation or a quick look up on a chart (also provided) I did zero prep for exam (I took it VERY early in process) AND I was the first done at my testing facility! Yes I didn't have to look everything up ( I have been a preparer for years)and I am admittedly a good tester and a fast reader. BUT, as paud preparers we MUST have standards. I lve in Florida tge fraud capital of just about everwhere, so I have turned away clients who I am sure were commiting fraud, and when with a large firm we also lost customers to tge fly by night diwn tge street who did taxes WRONG and then went on to steal ids (ss#) for Id and tax fraud. Akl of this really doesn't effect me much as a sole practioner I have been fingerprinted by IRS do I can be sn efile provider.The only thing I guess is the fact that I have spent $ for credentials which are now basically worthless. Oh Well, perhaps next year I will become an EA
Posted by: sheenstir | January 23, 2013 4:07 PM
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I can't believe this! I took the RTRP exam which was not too hard and passed. The emphasis was more on the penalties and circular 230. I am going to start a part-time business and have been doing my taxes all my life (45 years) and family and friends. I got the feeling that the IRS wanted 'casual' tax preparers to stop preparing taxes by scaring us with these rules and penalties. I paid for my PTIN for three years and didn't need to use it once. I don't mind doing the CPE compliance. You have to! Things change so much. I really don't like having to pay $62.50 each year to retain my PTIN because I will be a small independent tax preparer. That doesn't mean I will slack off. My clients when I get them will have someone who will work for them, advise them, and do the best for them. I guess I'm not going to get my certificate, but I am putting that I am a designated RTRP. Keeping the CPE portion is a GOOD THING!
Posted by: brocker123 | January 23, 2013 3:33 PM
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Have you thought about this? The IRS was so busy making sure we were compliant....don't you think they might have done their own homework and they wouldn't be addressing this problem they've created for themselves?
Personally, I think it is all about the money people. There are rules and regs in place already to take care of bad preparers!!!
You can make rules all day....but if you don't enforce the ones you have...don't try to make more rules. It sounds like the rules that were made in the first place weren't exactly thought through so let's make some more! I think that some of the IRS agents themselves are the ones that need to take exams.
Posted by: ransgirl | January 23, 2013 3:24 PM
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I am a CPA and would like to clear up the misunderstanding of some who have posted on this board. First, CPAs do pay license fees to the state and this new RTRP requirement will make us also have to pay the annual PTIN fee in addition to our existing licensing fees. Second, the RTRP designation only requires 15 hours per year of CPE, whereas a CPA is required to have 40 hours of CPE per year. We are also regulated by state boards and the AICPA. Unlike others on this board bashing CPAs, I will not reciprocate, as we all know there are both good and bad in ALL professions. However, I would ask those of you who do not have a formal education to consider one thing. We CPAs took the time to get a four or five year degree, passed a grueling two and a half day exam, have much more regulation and oversight, pay higher licensing fees with more required CPE which translates into higher costs, to maintain our licenses. We then compete for business in a non-regulated environment with preparers who can operate their businesses at a much lower cost because the CPE and regulatory requirements range from substantially lower to non-existent for the non-CPA. I believe there is a place for us all in this business but please don't complain that CPAs are exempt from anything here. We already passed a much more difficult test and our CPE requirements are greater.We have not been given anything by the IRS!
Posted by: Acct58 | January 23, 2013 2:42 PM
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Lets be honest, all this is for the money. The lawyers, the CPAs the EAs feel that, what they make from preparation of taxes is not enough. They feel that all these small professionals are obstacle to more profits, so they force the IRS (smears that unlicensed professionals are crooks) to put new regulations. Even though the statistics do not confirm it. Of course they say is for the benefit of the public. Do you believe them???, I do not. It was a good decision and I am happy for those honest professionals who work hard to make a living and for sure we are not crooks.
Posted by: geomar | January 23, 2013 2:33 PM
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This is an OUTSTANDING decision by the court! US income taxes began near the beginning of the last century. They have become so complicated it is INSANE. The IRS is responsible for taxpayer compliance, NOT preparers. The IRS is trying to put the compliance onus on preparers. The IRS should get their ACT together before it DICTATES that preparers must bear the burden. It is simply a matter of BUYER BEWARE, caveat emptor! If the taxpayer, the vast majority of whom are hugely ignorant of the tax code, choses to PAY someone to give it a try for them, they get what they pay for! If that is more headaches, so be it. Let the taxpayer take it up with the preparer after the IRS slaps their hands. Here is one sure thing: the preparer will do a better job than the ignorant taxpayer hiring them. The code should be simplified, PERIOD. That way any monkey could do their own tax return. The IRS should do the returns for free themselves. IRS: create software to lead taxpayers through the process. Then go prosecute those that don't tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Stop charging others their time and money to do YOUR JOB!!
Posted by: FrankLee | January 23, 2013 2:15 PM
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I live in California. We take a course with testing to prove competency and take continuing education every year in accordance with state law. I have been doing this for many years. Why must we also endure this pain with the IRS? Why aren't we grandfathered into any IRS program.
Test ability not memory! The IRS test is ridiculous. When preparing a return we have unlimited time and unlimited access to tax materials. Why then must we be time pressure tested on our memory skills of tax laws that change with each and every session of the legislature? I am constantly looking up the latest regulations when preparing returns to make sure I am using the current rules and guidelines. Also, most preparers now use a computer due to the electronic filing requirement being rammed down everyone's throat.
How do you test for that in one or two hours? If the test is manually preparing a return then make the test reasonable: here is the tax payer situation, here is a current 1040 booklet and forms. Now have at it. You either get it right or you take the test again. That's reasonable.
The IRS doesn't want tax preparers. They make less money from returns prepared by tax preparers then they do from returns improperly prepared by the tax payer. The CPA's and the EA's have jumped on the bandwagon because they would like to eliminate the competition. Is it truly out of any great love for the tax payer? And by the way, I've seen more then a few questionably prepared returns by both CPA's and EA's!
Intuit, makers of Turbo Tax, now have a commercial telling tax payers to buy and use Turbo Tax because tax preparers don't know what they are doing. Intuit makes an expensive version of Turbo Tax for tax preparers. It seems they don't mind pissing on the professional portion of their customer base. Needless to say, I won't be buying their product!
Why don't more states have a registration requirement? Why leave it up to the FED? I agree that a level of competency should be proven and maintained to protect the public as well as the tax preparer, but, please, make it reasonable. CPA's and EA's go through more educational requirements to maintain their certifications and practice before the IRS then do tax preparers. They also charge quite a bit more for their services then do tax preparers. Tax preparers, can be and are, a more affordable solution for tax payers then CPA's and EA's while still being perfectly competent (regardless of what Intuit has to say) to prepare returns for most tax payers! Qualified tax preparers aren't the bad guys here!
Posted by: Taxman32 | January 23, 2013 2:13 PM
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I think this attempted regulation by the IRS and its supporters are an attempt to keep out new preparers from being able to do business. It's nothing but self protection. I already took my 15 hours CEUs and it was a waste of time. So I sat at my desk went thru the questions and opened my pub 17 and found the answers. That is ridiculous. It is just more government control and CPAs and Attorneys trying to narrow the field. I am called by CPAs and asked questions on tax returns they are trying to do. Leave us alone. Let us be able to prepare returns for reasonable prices that help the taxpayer and helps us to make a living.
Posted by: sylviacroft | January 23, 2013 1:52 PM
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I think if nothing else the IRS should continue with the PTIN Program. By so doing, they can eliminate any preparer who is not following the rules and regulation. Also, all preparers should be happy to avail themselves to the CPE program.
Posted by Stephen G| January 23,2013 2:29 PM
Posted by: sgabriel59 | January 23, 2013 1:29 PM
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This was too much government, too muchIRS and too much Obama regulations. But I paid over $350 for the CU and the test. I am now punished for taking the CU and test promptly. I want my money back. I have a small practice and this was too costly and now a waste of money.
Posted by: taxgal64 | January 23, 2013 1:27 PM
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I have prepared taxes for low/moderate-income taxpayers for 12 years, under the IRS VITA program. VITA volunteers have always been required to pass certification tests, and they do it on their own time.
I've always been amazed that the same is not required of those who get paid to prepare taxes. While high-income taxpayers can generally spot an incompetent tax "professional," low-income taxpayers are not as savvy. They are the ones who get taken advantage of. Most of them are extremely intimidated by the whole process. Regulations are not there to protect the people who understand the industry; they're there to protect the people who do not. The ruling is a travesty.
Saying that tax preparers don't need to ensure their competence is like saying that taxi drivers don't need to know how to drive.
Posted by: dweelea | January 23, 2013 1:19 PM
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I have done returns for 30+ years -- Did my parents at age 11. Went to school majored in accounting but took all the tax classes offered. Took H & R Block classes and worked there. Did VITA in college so I have taken lots of test and proved myself over and over again. The IRS should grandfather us in. As I took the same classes as CPA's would be required to take most of them might take one tax class. Those 3 letters CPA does not mean they know how to do a tax return. Look at all the criminal activity in the past in Large CPA firms. So, do not punish those of us that have done our time and practice ethics even though we do not have to. I took my 15 CPE and was planning on taking the exam -- My only complaint is I had to pay for it all -- us small business tax preparers dont make that much money to pay out all this extra stuff.
Posted by: jtabh | January 23, 2013 12:28 PM
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I am sick of reading the belly aching that is being done by the "Elitest" group who wanted the protection that was granted by the IRS for their fellow CPA's, Enrolled Agents and Attorneys. They would accept these protections even though it was against the legal authority as granted by the Constitution and as provided by the Congress.
This is so typical of how the NAZI's gained their foothold in Germany during the late 20's and early 30's. They kept playing to the special interest groups, until they were able to control everyone.
Do a good job and you will not need the government to regulate the bad apples out of business. But, first make sure that you DO A GOOD JOB!
Posted by: Mhammer491 | January 23, 2013 12:01 PM
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you may have disagreed with dr hoodoo, but, if you went four years and got your bachlors degree for accounting when you came out of school you probably could not even fill in a 941 form. after working for several years of tax accounting maybe yes. but, accountants do not necessarly come out of school with tax knowledge.
Posted by: rjhill | January 23, 2013 11:57 AM
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First, there is nothing wrong with "Continuing Education!" Nor, is there any problem with being required to demonstrate minimum knowledge in the preparation of a tax return. However, the responsibility remains with the TAX PAYER to insure that their tax return is correct.
The Corporate world is a different animal, but the responsibility still lies with the Officers of the Corporation. Obtaining the status of "CPA" does not guarantee that one knows all concerning the tax laws.
One of the worst tax problems that I have corrected was created by a CPA with limited knowledge of Farm Tax Returns, and Taxable State Grant reporting.
Nothing on the application for a PTIN asked for personal background items such as education, experience, Accounting background, Legal knowledge background, nor anything that was related to knowledge that is required to accurately complete a tax return, especially a Business Tax Return. Nothing but a money making scheme by the IRS to help pay for the monsterous demands of Obamacare coming down the pike.
Posted by: Mhammer491 | January 23, 2013 11:57 AM
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Why do so many people feel that the "Public" needs the IRS to do something to regulate an industry that is as personal as you can get? It is the Tax Paying Public's responsibility to file a correct tax return!
Surely, most people are smart enough to know when the preparer is doing something illegal! How many people do not know that you can't claim the dog as a dependent? This was just another example of the Federal Government under the Direction of the current President expanding into every nook and cranny of our personal lives under the guise of "Social Justice" and making things better!
Those who are upset with the court's decision are just part of the educated elitest group that think they know better how to conduct your life than you do. That is why Obama did so well around the college towns of the the country.
Posted by: Mhammer491 | January 23, 2013 11:50 AM
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I am a CPA in Missouri, and have been licensed for over 50 years. While I only do about 30 tax returns, and half for family, I have taken the test, and happy to do so, as it requires me to keep up to date on the regulations. In taking the tests, I have become more knowledgeable and better prepared to serve my few clients. Therefore, if it is an imposition for some to comply, so be it if the system can even be more compliant and accurate. I only hope the whole Revenue Code and regulations can be overhauled to reduce the difficulty of tax preparation for all and the high costs of compliance.. the tax world becomes more complex and compiles more and more regulations that are ridiculous with all the exceptions, credits, and just plain obfuscations.
Posted by: COMMISH | January 23, 2013 11:48 AM
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This attempt by the IRS to regulate individual Tax Return Preparers is just another example of what has occurred under this administration. The "Educated Elite" are always given a free ride, because they are viewed as being above reproach. But, this was done in a typical fashion without regard to economic impact or without utilizing common sense.
The fact remains that we are a free society, and the responsibility of filing an accurate tax return remains with the tax payer. Surely, most people have come to rely on someone that they can trust and that they find to be competent. Obama, and the IRS have taken the position that everyone is a crook, and needs to be regulated by a central government that issues orders, rules and regulations for everything from white bread to the corporate tax structure.
Only the most liberal of tax preparers would agree that the approach used by the IRS was smart. Instead of making life difficult for everyone, why did they not just weed out those who are constantly filing bad tax returns? Contrary to popular opinion, 2 or 3 bad apples does not spoil the entire crop.
Posted by: Mhammer491 | January 23, 2013 11:45 AM
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if you prepare taxes with a computer, and see the test that is given for the test of rtrp, there is no connection, it is a math and algebra test, i took computer science because i knew in 1982 that if i could have 2% of line 7 on form XXX that i could have 3% of line 9 on form xxxx whoops if i change line 7 then line 9 also changes, and so on, doing this by hand was too time consuming, now i know the W2 goes in the W2, i know interest income goes on schedule B, capital gains on Schedule D why is the test then asking if I was under 16 and bought shares before 1984 how much % of tax would be for last 3 years' and did i hold the stock long enough? duh, this is not what i worry about. the computer does all of that for me, i must have an incompetent computer.
Posted by: rjhill | January 23, 2013 11:44 AM
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I am in favor of requiring tax preparers to display, at least, the minimum level of competency. However, I have been preparing tax returns for 30 years without any official designation. I have never had a return audited and I have never had a tax client leave me for another preparer. Although tax return preparation is only 20%+/- of my business I take their preparation very seriously because I CARE ABOUT MY CLIENTS!! I feel that preparers who have had an exemplary record for 10 or more years should be grandfathered in as registered tax preparers. That is if the RTRP program is reinstated at a later date. I have met a lot of highly quaified tax return preparers who are CPA's, EA's or neither. I have also acquired alot of clients over the years because all 3 also contain incompetent preparers. We have to also remember, that as with anything, no matter what is done (if anything) to regulate tax preparers, the sad fact is someone will figure out a way to scam the system. Also, everyone should remember that if it wasn't for a completely inept Congress we would all be busy preparing returns right now and way too busy to care about this subject until April 16th!!
Posted by: radavig | January 23, 2013 11:34 AM
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The reason the rules won't apply to Attorneys or CPAs is that they are already regulated professions through the state bars or state boards of accountancy. Plus, for CPAs, the CPE requirement is much greater then even an EAs as there is so much more subject matter to cover. The IRS has no reason to regulate them.
Posted by: mcseman23 | January 23, 2013 11:33 AM
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The RTRP should be offered as a voluntary credential. There are many unqualified preparers in business and I find most of them work for the big name preparation stores. These supposed "tax professionals" were and are a great source of my business fixing their errors.
Posted by: guarddat | January 23, 2013 11:18 AM
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I got my RTRP certificate from the IRS in November after passing the test, but was annoyed that I had to do it having prepared taxes professionally for 13 years. I kept and keep up with CE using the IRS site, webinars and other resorces and am annoyed I now have to pay another IRS leech to have the CE hours recorded. I've fixed problems and amended returns and addressed letters from the IRS for clients who came to me from CPAs and big box firms, and felt that they were sloppy at best in preparing returns. Had to convince one client to talk to another attorney or CPA because the one he had gave advice which was flat wrong and would have cost my client a lot of unnecessary tax expense for years. Bottom line: If everybody including CPAs, attorneys and ALL preparers in a big box firm have to take the test and record the CE, then I'm OK with it, but don't just pick on us independents, we're not the bad apples. I worked in a big box firm for one season when I started and was disgusted at the level of incompetence and lack of help I saw from supervision in the office. Agree with other writers that you cannot stop fraud with rules - those kind of people simply don't follow them! IRS must root out the bad guys using other methods. ..Retired engineer..
Posted by: OldGoat | January 23, 2013 11:17 AM
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I disagree with DrHooDoo in the statement that Certified Public Accountants only specialize in Accounting. Each state has its own regulation of how an individual becomes a CPA. When I got my CPA license in NY in the 1990's, I had to work in public accounting preparing tax returns OR accounting and auditing for at least two years under a CPA in order to get my license. I worked for a CPA whose practice was tax preparation, accounting and auditing so I have background in all three. I loved doing taxes and have always taken my CPE credits in tax even when I was working in accounting. I now have my own small tax practice in another state where I am also licensed and continue with CPE's in tax. I agree not all licensed persons are qualified to do taxes, however, not all non-licensed ones are either. I'm not a fan of more government control of our lives however I believe it is difficult to "regulate" integrity. That comes from the person themselves, licensed or not. If the RTRP test contains mainly ethics questions and not tax code questions, then the whole purpose of regulating tax preparers is nonsense. It's the tax code that tax preparers need to have the most knowledge in. Filing status and dependents to name the biggest. If these are wrong, the rest of the tax return is not accurate either. Then there is EIC, one of the biggest scams going. I ask many questions of taxpayers when it comes to filing status and dependents and if their answers do not seem truthful I refuse to prepare their return. My main concern is my integrity and my license to practice.
Posted by: Traveltax | January 23, 2013 11:14 AM
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So, if you've already taken the exam (and passed), do you get back the $116 you paid to take the exam? How about the PTIN fee? If I have assistant tax preparers in my office, do they get a PTIN or not?
Posted by: Debbie S | January 23, 2013 11:10 AM
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It's amazing that almost every response posted here comments on incompetent tax preparers and yet some responses are against the regulations. I have been, and continue to be, in total agreement with requiring tax preparers to be registered and to require a minimum amount of annual continuing education. 15 hours of education a year is not a heavy burden. Many preparers simply relay on Turbo Tax to know tax law. Tax payers DESERVE to know that the preparer they pay knows what they're doing. I'm an Enrolled Agent with a tax practice in Michigan. Michigan requires that bee keepers be licensed but not tax preparers. The IRS is the logical place for license requirements. Right now we've all lost. I've lost for the hit my chosen profession has taken and the taxpayers have lost the opportunity to have their returns prepared by a knowledgeable professional.
Posted by: mapp540 | January 23, 2013 11:08 AM
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To assume that these "other" tax preparers are incompetent is arrogant and ignorant. Many of your comments are protectionist, and self-agrandizing. As smart as you may believe you are, you still don't get it what this is about.
Posted by: hisexcellency | January 23, 2013 11:08 AM
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No mater how many test the irs has you take they will not stop preparers who do tax returns and say self prepared and do not sign them. They are the problem.
Posted by: miloM | January 23, 2013 11:02 AM
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Do we get a refund for the PTIN fee we have been paying each year. I agree with the courts decision. I have been doing taxes for over forty years, and I think there should be some system of grandfathering in experienced practioners.
Posted by: lmathis573 | January 23, 2013 10:55 AM
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This is disappointing.
The exam only has to be taken once, people. :) And there is no harm in refreshing the material as well as learning the new laws annually.
I do hope the IRS appeals and makes it so that ALL would have to take the exam. I felt it was unfair that CPA's and EA's did not have to take the exam. There are corrupt CPA's as well as tax preparers out there.
Posted by: minimomo | January 23, 2013 10:55 AM
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in 1913 the preable to the tax system said you did not have to be a member of any group or organiztion, you did not have to be an attorney or CPA, in the 1920's the IRS lost in court with their demand for receipts or no deduction, check on the Cohan rule the IRS is necessary, but, they should be serving the public not abusing the public like the sherrif of notingham
Posted by: rjhill | January 23, 2013 10:47 AM
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dr. hoodoo you are so right, i too have cpa's and lawyers who come to me for tax advice, been doing taxes since 1960;,paid $100 in 1960 to a CPA had only a w2 to report, i decided that that was a good thing to do and started doing my own first, to make a long story a little shorter, why can't the IRS simply tell me mr hill we've decided that you don't need to continue filing anyone's taxes, i have seen them do that to some CPA's and I also know some CPA's that have you say you self prepared the return...this was just a revenue product, not a true control of bad anything, $69 x ??? is several dollars for the IRS to buy new cars for their agents.
Posted by: rjhill | January 23, 2013 10:43 AM
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I disagree with the court's decision to ban the RTRP program. I have observed the effects of incompetent if not fraudulent tax preparers on many occasions during my 44 years of practice. This is especially prevalent in less privileged and non-English speaking communities where taxpayers tend to be somewhat less knowledgeable about tax matters and are mercilessly taken advantage of by unscrupulous and ill-prepared tax preparers. As I have often repeated, as there is no licensing authority for tax preparers unlike CPA, tax attorneys or EAs, anyone can hang a shingle out and call themselves a tax expert. Without an unbiased agency to discern the validity of this claim, taxpayers are left to their own devices to select a qualified preparer. There is no external incentive for tax preparers to maintain or improve their skills set. As Newton observed, "An object at rest tends to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force." RTRP was that outside force that could prod the complacent, ill-prepared tax preparer to at least take some steps to improve their tax knowledge. In the end, the taxpayer would be the beneficiary and if it inconvenienced some tax preparers, so be it.
Posted by: ramcorp | January 23, 2013 10:30 AM
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I disagree with the court's decision to ban the RTRP program. I have observed the effects of incompetent if not fraudulent tax preparers on many occasions during my 44 years of practice. This is especially prevalent in less privileged and non-English speaking communities where taxpayers tend to be somewhat less knowledgeable about tax matters and are mercilessly taken advantage of by unscrupulous and ill-prepared tax preparers. As I have often repeated, as there is no licensing authority for tax preparers unlike CPA, tax attorneys or EAs, anyone can hang a shingle out and call themselves a tax expert. Without an unbiased agency to discern the validity of this claim, taxpayers are left to their own devices to select a qualified preparer. There is no external incentive for tax preparers to maintain or improve their skills set. As Newton observed, "An object at rest tends to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force." RTRP was that outside force that could prod the complacent, ill-prepared tax preparer to at least take some steps to improve their tax knowledge. In the end, the taxpayer would be the beneficiary and if it inconvenienced some tax preparers, so be it.
Posted by: ramcorp | January 23, 2013 10:28 AM
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I have been preparing income tax returns for over 25+ years and I felt that it was rather evasive to now have to register and go through continuing education classes that I have voluntarily done over 25+ years. The importance of taking the classes ensures that the tax preparers are abreast of their requirements and almost all professions have these requirements - doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc., and the fallacy of accountants has been the de-regulation of this profession. Everyone can prepare their own income tax returns and the profession lacks the creditibility that all other professions already has imposed on them. I was frustrated with the insistence of the IRS requirements initially but felt that eventually it would minimize the occurrence of rampant deregard of the tax codes and the taxpayers by so many fraudulent tax preparers, but this rulling will change the momentum of our professional standing again. IRS will appeal and eventually win the ruling but probably with less constraints. I have decided to pursue the enrolled agent exam so that I will not have to test each year, but be a part of the elite segment of tax preparers.
Posted by: nitchiedavis | January 23, 2013 10:16 AM
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I agree with ONESTOPSHOP this is a slap in the face for those of us the have kept up with laws and ethics.
Posted by: EAandproudofit | January 23, 2013 10:15 AM
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I took the test the first of January and passed but have not received my certificate and now I am wondering if they will send it. They took my money, I studied and passed. Even though the IRS has shut down their PTIN site, I do hope they will send me my certificate.
Posted by: msbaysalr | January 23, 2013 10:07 AM
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I have taken the exam offered by the IRS and passed it thanks to the preparation work I paid for during the summer months. If I had not taken this preparation work I would not have passed the exam, too many questions on ethics, etc. It was worth it----I feel that I am a much better prepared tax preparer now than I was last year. I don't think this hurts anyone and I am all for the IRS sticking to their guns and having these regulations become the law of the land. Too many bums out there doing tax work for people that know nothing other than how to screw the public. FB from the Burg.
Posted by: FBATEMAN1 | January 23, 2013 10:05 AM
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I disagree with the decision because I believe that there are too many people who become complacent with their practice and never upgrade their skill set. So in the end the taxpayer suffers. According to Newton, an object at rest tends to stay at rest until acted upon by an outside force. RTRP was the outside force that would motivate those stuck in complacency to, out of regulatory necessity, move to upgrade their skills and knowledge.
Posted by: ramcorp | January 23, 2013 10:02 AM
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I'm sick of hearing about "incompetent, non-licensed preparers"! In the past 25 years I've repaired more poorly prepared tax returns that were completed by CPA's than I can count. I have clients in all kinds of professions and all income brackets and I have heard the tax advice they were given by some CPA's: all I could do was shake my head and wonder where these "professionals" got their information from. And attorneys? Why should they get a free ride? What percentage of practicing lawyers know squat about tax prep? Maybe 1 out of 2000? How many would even attempt to do their own return? Sorry CPA's but you have no exclusivity when it comes to knowledge of the Tax Code. It's not in a secret vault that only your little club has a key to so get off your high horse and start to realize that Certified Public Accountant stands for just what you specialize in: ACCOUNTING, not tax preparation. Tax prep is what a whole lot of us non-licensed folks do to make our living year round and we do it damned well!
Posted by: DrHoodoo | January 23, 2013 10:02 AM
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I, too, was scheduled to take the competency test tomorrow - and was ready after months of study and prep with an online review course. I don't believe the IRS is totally wrong in requiring that tax preparers have basic knowledge of the tax codes, and continue to keep up by taking continuing education classes every year. I do believe that preparers who have been preparing tax returns for many years without problems could have been grandfathered in, but I learned a lot in reviewing for the exam that I hadn't had to deal with in my small practice, or that I had forgotten over the years, so perhaps the exam is a good thing in that regard. I do believe, however, that the regulations should apply across the board to all accountants, CPAs, attorneys, as well as independent tax preparers. I have had tax returns brought to me by clients who had previously used accountants, etc. and found glaring mistakes. My own experience is a year's worth of tax preparation courses at a local college, and a year's worth of accounting courses, and then 30 years of preparing returns at a law firm before starting my own private practice.
Posted by: Taxmaster | January 23, 2013 9:49 AM
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I hope the IRS can fix it. I agree with them. Too many fraudulent out there.
Posted by: leonor17 | January 23, 2013 9:48 AM
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IRS should first more agressively go after freudelent tax preparers and close their businesses before they regulate the industry. I felt they are going down on me before they went on those they should have had. This is a green light for those thives out there to continue filing their freudelent tax returns and make the rest of us look like amateurs.
Posted by: gbrnjic@yahoo.com | January 23, 2013 9:36 AM
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The IRS is not the Gestapo. We are mindless sheep and we would be unable to function without government control over our lives. Oh what madness and chaos liberty has in store for us!
Posted by: tagart13 | January 23, 2013 9:25 AM
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I am one who is somewhat disappointed. I am a non-licensed paid tax preparer; and, one who does not believe honesty can be regulated which is a part of the problem in our tax business. I have several clients who came to me from licensed preparers who did more than bend the rules. I have not been in the business all my life - first 32 years of my adult life was spent in another high security environment; the last 25 have been in the tax preparation and related business. However, I am disappointed as I was scheduled to take the test next week; having changed the date from November due to illness. I have been studying the areas that my program (purchased last summer) tells me I am weak in and was ready for the test. I have always attended at least 40 to 60 hours of updates and training each year for the past 25 years so I am not one of the incompetent ones. However, I know they are out there in all areas of the business as I have "fixed" some of their incompetency.
Posted by: Snowshoe | January 23, 2013 9:20 AM
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Until ALL preparers must follow these silly rules, I applaud this Court decision. There is little fraud and what there is, has been pursued vigorously. This must include CPAs, Lawyers and Large Corp Tax entities(H&R Block,etc)
Posted by: sundayp | January 23, 2013 9:18 AM
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I agree with mcseman23....where do those go? Can they be transferred to apply towards the SEE Exams? I for one would love to VOLUNTARILY take the SEE exam, and gladly abide by Circular 230 for an EA distinction because so many taxpayers are being targeted and victimized by the unscrupulous preparers. I know this because I do attempt to repair their damage to the unwitting taxpayer.
The IRS had the correct thinking, but rules are established for a reason. Abuse of power can not be tolerated. They need to fix these issues posthaste!!!
Posted by: theacln | January 23, 2013 9:18 AM
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I hope the IRS get what is necessary from congress to regulate Tax Preparers and also CPA's and Tax Attorney. The EA's are already regulated by IRS. The Tax Attorney's and CPA's are not.
Posted by: hitsero3 | January 23, 2013 9:06 AM
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wow...this is close to being surreal. i totally agree with ONESTOPSHOP, "the taxpayers are the ones to lose." i haven't taken the test, but paid for the prep class. i have to admit, i was not looking forward to the stress of taking the test, however i realize the need for regulation in this industry and will do what's necessary to stay in compliance.
Posted by: annsingletontax | January 23, 2013 8:52 AM
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. "Some would argue, in fact, that the decision is a victory for those who would like the right to remain incompetent, to remain completely ignorant of the many annual changes in tax law and administrative procedure, and to foist the cost of their willful ignorance onto their clients."
I agree totally. The taxpayers are the ones to lose. Too many fraudulent preparers out there and not fair for those like us who keep up with the tax laws and especially ethics. I hope IRS fights this all the way.
Posted by: ONESTOPSHOP | January 23, 2013 8:17 AM
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Sad day for the tax paying public - though there are many non-licensed tax preparers who are so competent, there are a lot who are not and we are fixing those returns every day. Now there is no more protection against them for the taxpayer and they may continue to shell out more money than they need to.
Posted by: Michele E | January 23, 2013 7:44 AM
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Ok - my question now becomes this. What if I already scheduled the exam? Do I get a refund, or could I take those funds and take the SEE?
Posted by: mcseman23 | January 22, 2013 10:43 PM
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